<G39> Pinning

[kirtar]

<G39> Pinning - A ROBOT may not pin (inhibit the movement of another ROBOT that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal) for more than 5 seconds. If a ROBOT has been pinned for 5 seconds, the team with the pinning ROBOT will be signaled by a referee to release the pinned ROBOT and back away approximately 6 feet. Once the pinning ROBOT has backed off by 6 feet for 3 seconds, it may again attempt to pin its opponent, and if successful, the 5 second count will start over. Violation: One PENALTY for each violation

First, I take it that the 5 second timer resets only when you back away for three seconds, regardless of how long you pinned the opposing robot. Second, if the robot is not touching a field element (I'm guessing floor excluded), it's not pinning, so you can push for as long as you want in that situatioin.

Also, if you are able to pin a robot indefinitely (e.g. tank pinning a killough drive in a corner), would you get only one penalty for this as long as they did not escape, or will you get one for every five seconds that you pin them for (kinda a stretch, but I can see someone using that interpretation)?

[Big Kid]

i think by my interpretation I think the timer resets after every penalty so if you pin a robot get a penalty and then continue to pin for another 5 seconds it will be another penalty.

[BrendanB]

Once you pin someone to the point where they are not moving, the timer starts when their movement is hindered. You back off to 6 feet and 3 seconds later you can go back to pinning.

This video might help you out- http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv.../2007cmp_sf2m2 Second 1:49 is when 910 starts pining 233.

[Barry Bonzack]

the definition of pinning is interpretted as the pinned robot is unable to travel anywhere. If there is just a pushing match at midfield, either robot can simply back up and go somewhere else.

The "each violation" is meant to imply that a penalty will be given every 5 seconds.

[GaryVoshol]

Is pinning against a 45* ramp, that your robot can't climb due to design constraints, really pinning?

[engunneer]

yes, that's pinning. The ramp is a field element.

[Jack Jones]

Is pinning against a 45* ramp, that your robot can't climb due to design constraints, really pinning?

Originally Posted by engunneer

yes, that's pinning. The ramp is a field element.

I say NO pin. I even though the ramp may be a field element, the robot has an avenue of escape - up the ramp. Therefore the robot is NOT pinned.

[draconar]

Pinning against the bumps (ramps, whatever) is probably going to depend on the referees' discretion. If the pinned robot has a tank drivetrain and the treads are parallel to the ramp and it can't move, then it's probably pinning. If the treads can go up the ramp but the team just wants to go the other direction, it wouldn't be.
As somebody said above, pinning only happens when a robot can't move anywhere. Otherwise it's just blocking.

[Wetzel]

Originally Posted by draconar

Pinning against the bumps (ramps, whatever) is probably going to depend on the referees' discretion. If the pinned robot has a tank drivetrain and the treads are parallel to the ramp and it can't move, then it's probably pinning. If the treads can go up the ramp but the team just wants to go the other direction, it wouldn't be.
As somebody said above, pinning only happens when a robot can't move anywhere. Otherwise it's just blocking.

Somebody might have said that, but the rules do not. The <G39> states that "A ROBOT may not pin (inhibit the movement of another ROBOT that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal) for more than 5 seconds."
It says INHIBIT, not "keep a robot from moving anywhere." There is an important difference.

As for pinning against a bump, is the bump a field element? Yup.
Is the robot movement inhibited? If the robot can't get over it, then yup.
Then it follows that a robot can be pinned against the bump.


Wetzel

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by Wetzel

Somebody might have said that, but the rules do not. The <G39> states that "A ROBOT may not pin (inhibit the movement of another ROBOT that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal) for more than 5 seconds."
It says INHIBIT, not "keep a robot from moving anywhere." There is an important difference.

As for pinning against a bump, is the bump a field element? Yup.
Is the robot movement inhibited? If the robot can't get over it, then yup.
Then it follows that a robot can be pinned against the bump.


Wetzel

1 : to prohibit from doing something

It is not the blocking robot that inhibits the other from going over the bump. It is their own design flaw that prevents it. Should they both get a penalty for "inhibiting"?

EDIT: I don't know why I'm arguing the point. I would have my driver avoid the chance of a penality by pushing the other robot onto the bump and leaving it stuck there.

[Chris is me]

Formerly Famous - Don't worry, I'm not offended.

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

1 : to prohibit from doing something

It is not the blocking robot that inhibits the other from going over the bump. It is their own design flaw that prevents it. Should they both get a penalty for "inhibiting"?

I don't like this. Then you could argue that a robot pinned against a wall would be able to be freed if it had swerve drive, and thus it should be pinned indefinitely.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

1 : to prohibit from doing something

It is not the blocking robot that inhibits the other from going over the bump. It is their own design flaw that prevents it. Should they both get a penalty for "inhibiting"?

So you are saying that if we hold you against the side rail it's not pinning because you didn't design your robot to fly?

(Note: this is the logical extreme of your thought pattern. Which is why pinning against any field object is pinning ... regardless of design)

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

I say NO pin. I even though the ramp may be a field element, the robot has an avenue of escape - up the ramp. Therefore the robot is NOT pinned.

Pinning is defined as inhibiting the movement of another robot that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal. The bumps are a field element. Yes, there is an avenue of escape. No, the rules don't say, "except for against the bumps". Therefore, the robot is pinned, because it is in contact with a field element.

Now, you could easily argue the other way. So, here's a question for someone who can post on Q&A to post when it opens: "Under <G39>, pinning is defined as inhibiting the movement of another robot that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal. If a robot is trapped against a BUMP by another robot, it has an escape route (over the BUMP). Is this still pinning?"

[Matthew2c4u]

Wait for q/a or team update. Right now its unclear, and it will be fixed but for now its just speculation.

[ssa3512]

<G32> ROBOT Protection while Righting – Before the FINALE, ROBOTS attempting to right themselves or their ALLIANCE partners have one 10-second grace period per fallen ROBOT in which they may not be contacted by an opposing ROBOT. This protection continues for either 10 seconds or when the protected ROBOTS have completed the righting operation, whichever time comes first. Violation: PENALTY for inadvertent contact; plus a RED CARD for obviously intentional contact.
<G39> Pinning - A ROBOT may not pin (inhibit the movement of another ROBOT that is in contact with a field element, border, or goal) for more than 5 seconds. If a ROBOT has been pinned for 5 seconds, the team with the pinning ROBOT will be signaled by a referee to release the pinned ROBOT and back away approximately 6 feet. Once the pinning ROBOT has backed off by 6 feet for 3 seconds, it may again attempt to pin its opponent, and if successful, the 5 second count will start over. Violation: One PENALTY for each violation.

Would it be illegal to block your opponent's goal with a disabled robot (after the ten second grace period) The way I am interpreting the pinning rule in regards to this is that the robot is incapacitated, and thus you are not "inhibiting [its] movement"
What about pinning an opponents robot with a disabled robot?