Effective Drive Base

[DiehardCybercard]

What are everyone's opinions on what could be an effective drive base for this year and why do you think so?

I had a thought of a swerve drive with treaded wheels. The treaded wheels could provide the necessary traction to move over the BUMPS but the swerve drive provides extreme mobility.

[quinxorin]

I agree. Crab (swerve) drives will most definitely be effective this year.

Mecanum drives will also be effective, because they are both able to get up the bumps and move with extreme maneuverability and moderate speed. The one downfall is that they have to be dead perpendicular to the ramp, or they will just drive sideways along it.

I think the best drive trains will be those built specifically for this game, such as a drive like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xby0SOphLUg

[Chrono101]

I keep thinking tank treads would be a good idea. The bumps would be no problem whatsoever.

[T3_1565]

I tried this year to think about not using my favourite drivetrain (our linkage). But the more and more I thought about it, the more and more I think that our system would work out well. Basically a swerve system with a little less mobilty and less complexity should be well and capable of climbing bumps in at least one or both set ups.

[DiehardCybercard]

a graduated member of my team suggested using belts that have been flipped inside out to use as tank treds

[cooldude8181]

Originally Posted by Chrono101

I keep thinking tank treads would be a good idea. The bumps would be no problem whatsoever.

My team thinks that the treads would slow us down to much.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by DiehardCybercard

What are everyone's opinions on what could be an effective drive base for this year and why do you think so?

I had a thought of a swerve drive with treaded wheels. The treaded wheels could provide the necessary traction to move over the BUMPS but the swerve drive provides extreme mobility.

Some things to consider if you want a swerve drive. Will it high center? How will it climb? Can it take the shock load of falling off the bump? Do you have the resources to ensure this works?

And unfortunately, Simswerve looks somewhat impossible this year. Design idea number 40 billion killed by bumpers.

[dustinjeremy2k]

I'd like to encourage teams to draw lots of diagrams, mock up rolling chassis, and think about the assumptions you are making before designing a "drive base".

Basics
4WD skid - simple, effective, stable climber. If it's designed to stand a chance in a pushing contest, it won't be very maneuverable.
6WD skid / tank tread - a bit heavier, more moving parts, NOT a very stable climber, much more maneuverable, still good at pushing (Usually the best "compromise" chassis, but not this year).
Omni / Holonomic - very versatile, simple, maneuverable, but you're on roller skates, and can't climb well (or at all).
Crab / Swerve - similar to above but with superior traction, superior handling, more complex, many moving parts, not likely to be a good climber. Does not (usually) rotate the chassis efficiently which could lead to more complex (multi-sided) game mechanisms.

I think the best drive systems will be some sort of hybrid between two of the basics. I would NOT use a tread or a crab to climb... good luck to those who try it! (And do you really need to climb anyway?) If you do, you might want to bring a big tool box to the competitions!

Enjoy!

[manderson5192]

Originally Posted by dustinjeremy2k

I'd like to encourage teams to draw lots of diagrams, mock up rolling chassis, and think about the assumptions you are making before designing a "drive base".

Basics
4WD skid - simple, effective, stable climber. If it's designed to stand a chance in a pushing contest, it won't be very maneuverable.
6WD skid / tank tread - a bit heavier, more moving parts, NOT a very stable climber, much more maneuverable, still good at pushing (Usually the best "compromise" chassis, but not this year).
Omni / Holonomic - very versatile, simple, maneuverable, but you're on roller skates, and can't climb well (or at all).
Crab / Swerve - similar to above but with superior traction, superior handling, more complex, many moving parts, not likely to be a good climber. Does not (usually) rotate the chassis efficiently which could lead to more complex (multi-sided) game mechanisms.

I think the best drive systems will be some sort of hybrid between two of the basics. I would NOT use a tread or a crab to climb... good luck to those who try it! (And do you really need to climb anyway?) If you do, you might want to bring a big tool box to the competitions!

Enjoy!

Why would a tank tread design do poorly while climbing those bumps? I've heard the exact opposite: that tanks are great at it, and that they *almost* never break. I'm on an iPhone, so I can't link to YouTube, but search up the Ripsaw MS1 made by Howe and Howe Tech (yeah, the ones from discovery channel).

[Jonathan Norris]

Drive system mobility and ball control are going to be the two most important aspects of robots this year, and likely the two most over looked in the design process.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by dustinjeremy2k

I'd like to encourage teams to draw lots of diagrams, mock up rolling chassis, and think about the assumptions you are making before designing a "drive base".

Basics
4WD skid - simple, effective, stable climber. If it's designed to stand a chance in a pushing contest, it won't be very maneuverable.
6WD skid / tank tread - a bit heavier, more moving parts, NOT a very stable climber, much more maneuverable, still good at pushing (Usually the best "compromise" chassis, but not this year).
Omni / Holonomic - very versatile, simple, maneuverable, but you're on roller skates, and can't climb well (or at all).
Crab / Swerve - similar to above but with superior traction, superior handling, more complex, many moving parts, not likely to be a good climber. Does not (usually) rotate the chassis efficiently which could lead to more complex (multi-sided) game mechanisms.

I think the best drive systems will be some sort of hybrid between two of the basics. I would NOT use a tread or a crab to climb... good luck to those who try it! (And do you really need to climb anyway?) If you do, you might want to bring a big tool box to the competitions!

Enjoy!

The advice about checking assumptions and making design drawings and models is excellent, and there is a good list of drive concepts to consider here, as well.

However I would strongly encourage teams to check the assumptions made in the "basics" section of this post for themselves by looking at successful ramp climbers from the Aim High game, and step climbers from the First Frenzy game. Some of what is listed there, although no doubt well-intentioned, doesn't reflect my personal observations of drive train abilities over the past six years.

Jason

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

The advice about checking assumptions and making design drawings and models is excellent, and there is a good list of drive concepts to consider here, as well.

However I would strongly encourage teams to check the assumptions made in the "basics" section of this post for themselves by looking at successful ramp climbers from the Aim High game, and step climbers from the First Frenzy game. Some of what is listed there, although no doubt well-intentioned, doesn't reflect my personal observations of drive train abilities over the past six years.

Jason

You beat me to this post.

Never rule out unconventional drivetrains that would seem like a waste on a flat field either. Maybe it's not so good to limit your options to the 5 drivetrains on that list. I don't know.

I would completely rule out swerve drive if you've never built one before. Knowing your limits is key.

[craigboez]

Originally Posted by dustinjeremy2k

I would NOT use a tread or a crab to climb... good luck to those who try it!

What is the reasoning behind not using a crab to climb?

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by dustinjeremy2k

I'd like to encourage teams to draw lots of diagrams, mock up rolling chassis, and think about the assumptions you are making before designing a "drive base".

Basics
4WD skid - simple, effective, stable climber. If it's designed to stand a chance in a pushing contest, it won't be very maneuverable.
6WD skid / tank tread - a bit heavier, more moving parts, NOT a very stable climber, much more maneuverable, still good at pushing (Usually the best "compromise" chassis, but not this year).
Omni / Holonomic - very versatile, simple, maneuverable, but you're on roller skates, and can't climb well (or at all).
Crab / Swerve - similar to above but with superior traction, superior handling, more complex, many moving parts, not likely to be a good climber. Does not (usually) rotate the chassis efficiently which could lead to more complex (multi-sided) game mechanisms.

I think the best drive systems will be some sort of hybrid between two of the basics. I would NOT use a tread or a crab to climb... good luck to those who try it! (And do you really need to climb anyway?) If you do, you might want to bring a big tool box to the competitions!

Enjoy!

Your reasoning behind many of these suggestions is very flawed. Your references to 6wd robots that fail to climb the ramp are inaccurate generalizations. I have yet to see a ramp that a well designed and well thought out 6wd with very good CG cannot overcome.

Also, this may be the year we see a 6 wheel swerve system. Although I would never doubt someone like WildStang designing a 4 wheel system that can overcome the bump this year.

Tracks. Finally we have a year where tracks are useful again! As for the weight concern, how does 18lbs for simple track modules sound? 38 for simple modules with gearboxes and motors?

I like this year.