Rail Diversion

[CottonBall]

We are looking into diverting balls from the ball return.

Now under rule [<G45> Active BALL control - ROBOTS may not control BALL direction with active MECHANISMS above the BUMPER ZONE. Violation: PENALTY.]

Does this mean that an active MECHANISM may not be used to Speed the ball up? Because my interpretation of this is that as long as we aren't changing the direction inadvertently, but changing the speed of the ball it is alright?

[vg674]

My guess is that they don't really want any interference with the rails at all, be it for safety reasons or the spirit of the game, and that trying to manipulate the ball with some arm or flail or whatever isn't allowed. Of course, that's something to go onto the Q&A.

Regardless, I think they are aiming more for making sure the rules are more like soccer than for any rules concerning the ball return here. Hope that helps.

[Nuttyman54]

Two rules prevent you from doing this:

<G31> BALL RETURN and RETURN BARS Protection - ROBOTS may not contact the BALL RETURN or the RETURN BARS (black tape). Violation: PENALTY for inadvertent contact; plus a RED CARD for obviously intentional contact or damaging contact.

<G47> BALL RETURN Interference - ROBOTS may not interfere with BALLS in contact with the BALL RETURN. Violation: Two PENALTIES per affected BALL.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Nuttyman54

Two rules prevent you from doing this:

<G31> BALL RETURN and RETURN BARS Protection - ROBOTS may not contact the BALL RETURN or the RETURN BARS (black tape). Violation: PENALTY for inadvertent contact; plus a RED CARD for obviously intentional contact or damaging contact.

<G47> BALL RETURN Interference - ROBOTS may not interfere with BALLS in contact with the BALL RETURN. Violation: Two PENALTIES per affected BALL.

i think there is at least one more rule that might prevent this...
Unless you are contacting the tower you cannot reach into the ball return without exceeding your standard height. (If you are doing this while the ball is enroute along the the tower rails... (It is pretty obvious from G47 that you can't do this...


Now if you wish to do this after it leaves the track...

I would also think that this would constitute an Active Mechanism above the Bumper zone....<G45> which is not allowed to control the ball's direction.
If you speed up the ball... you are INDEED controlling the direction too...remember the end result of speeding up the ball would be to change its point of contact with the floor... this can only be accomplished by changing the the trajectory of the ball... therefore you would be changing the ball's direction in the y direction...

You should ask Q and A though... they are the real answer people.

[DonRotolo]

But a passive mechanism - maybe an angled cover for the robot - seems just fine to me. I mean, if you're just driving by the return exit and a ball happens to drop on top of you (and bounces right off), I cannot imagine that would be considered carrying. (If it stayed on top, you're scrod).

[EricH]

If the ball is in contact with the ball return, <G47> comes into play.

If you're simply thinking of after they leave, hit them elsewhere, then everyone else is wondering the same thing, I think.

[CottonBall]

I think that my post was misread. We have no intentions of contacting the ball return. We are simply wondering if a ball is on our robot (not on the return) if we are allowed to speed it up but not change its direction. Because my interpretation is that the ball cannot be changed direction with an active mechanism, but our design is not changing the direction of the ball, simply changing the speed.

if this makes sense, thanks for any input

Team 3049 Bremerton, WA
Fluffy Robotics

[EricH]

Originally Posted by CottonBall

We are simply wondering if a ball is on our robot (not on the return) if we are allowed to speed it up but not change its direction. Because my interpretation is that the ball cannot be changed direction with an active mechanism, but our design is not changing the direction of the ball, simply changing the speed.

if this makes sense, thanks for any input

Team 3049 Bremerton, WA
Fluffy Robotics

Reading the rules literally, yes, it would be allowed. However: In order to increase the speed without changing the direction at all, you'd need some pretty precise positioning. Add to that the fact that you may or may not get a carrying penalty, and the fact that sometimes the intent of a rule isn't clearly stated, then you're best off asking Q&A when it opens tomorrow.

And, like I said, others are wondering the same thing.

[yoshibrock]

<G31> BALL RETURN and RETURN BARS Protection - ROBOTS may not contact the BALL RETURN or the RETURN BARS (black tape). Violation: PENALTY for inadvertent contact; plus a RED CARD for obviously intentional contact or damaging contact.

This means that you can't touch the rails AT ALL or you risk a red card. Even if you somehow manage to touch only the ball, you risk incurring <G45> like you said. In my opinion, the game creators don't want anyone even close to messing with the ball return. I wouldn't make it your main strategy.

EDIT: I just realized that I may have misread your post. You can ignore what I said about touching the rails. If I understand you correctly, you want to redirect the ball after it falls from the ball return. My interpretation of <G45> as well as the carrying rule lead me to the conclusion that it would be extremely risky to build some sort of active mechanism to control the balls that fall from the rails. We're planning to build a cover for our robot that would deflect the balls inadvertantly, but not purposefully. But hey, it might be something to bring up in the Q&A