Picking Two other Robots off the ground

[MrFixIt2719]

Do you think it would be a good idea to design your robot to instead of relying on two robots to try and hang from you but to design a way to lift the other two up with you?

[Tom Line]

We discussed doing that same thing. However we decided it was not a trivial pursuit considering you have no idea what configuration the other robots on your team will be. The weights are not trivial either. We also weren't willing to give up other characteristics of our robot to do it, so in the end we decided that the risk vs. the reward (a couple extra points) wasn't worth it for us.

[MrFixIt2719]

well we have come up with a pretty good idea on how to do so if it pans out do you think it could be an important alliance partner

[jamie_1930]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

We discussed doing that same thing. However we decided it was not a trivial pursuit considering you have no idea what configuration the other robots on your team will be. The weights are not trivial either. We also weren't willing to give up other characteristics of our robot to do it, so in the end we decided that the risk vs. the reward (a couple extra points) wasn't worth it for us.

In my opinion it should be a simple task to accomplish, just have low hanging rigid bar similar to the field's bar, or as similar as you can make it. I think a lot of people are over complicating the problem, thinking that it will be hard to have something that other robot's will be able to grab, but you know what the need to grab originally so just copy that design as close as you can, you should be able to have robots hang from you if your hanging from the bar.

[Phoenix Spud]

I think that teams who can pick up two other robots will be in Atlanta this year.

.02

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by jamie_1930

In my opinion it should be a simple task to accomplish, just have low hanging rigid bar similar to the field's bar, or as similar as you can make it. I think a lot of people are over complicating the problem, thinking that it will be hard to have something that other robot's will be able to grab, but you know what the need to grab originally so just copy that design as close as you can, you should be able to have robots hang from you if your hanging from the bar.

That's assuming that the other robots are designed to hang from the bar. That's a pretty big assumption to be making if those 8 points are a major part of your strategy.

[jamie_1930]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

That's assuming that the other robots are designed to hang from the bar. That's a pretty big assumption to be making if those 8 points are a major part of your strategy.

It is an assumption, but it being that big of an assumption is arguable. Yes there are designs being implemented to use the four supporting bars, and other means, to suspend the robot but the large majority will be hanging from the bar as originally intended, and unless your robot design prevents this it should be relatively simple to implement.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by jamie_1930

It is an assumption, but it being that big of an assumption is arguable. Yes there are designs being implemented to use the four supporting bars, and other means, to suspend the robot but the large majority will be hanging from the bar as originally intended, and unless your robot design prevents this it should be relatively simple to implement.

What about robots who have no plans to hang at all?

[jamie_1930]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

What about robots who have no plans to hang at all?

Then it doesn't matter for them at all, there job during competition will be to either run defense by blocking the path of the opposing alliance to their tower or to continue scoring during the finale. What I'm trying to get across is that for robots planning to hang from the bar during the finale they should try and include a way for other robots to hang from them as well, there are simple answers to the solution and if implemented effectively can help you obtain substantial points during the match.

[Chris is me]

There are a number of rules that make this difficult to implement. I seriously considered this design and made many non-CAD sketches and plans for it, but abandoned it due to it basically taking away resources from every other aspect of the game.

The main rule is the 84 inch cylinder. This gives you 28 inches or so on each side MAX. to fit, drive on platforms would be shorter in some sections than others. It's a tight fit.

The other thing to consider is the weight of two strong drive on platforms plus a hanging system that can pull 500 pounds in about 10 seconds, while still working if a robot is only on one side of the robot. Weight becomes a big deal, as most designs I had needed dual telescoping arms to get it done.

Plus then you have to be concerned about how many alliance partners can or will be able to climb onto your drive on platforms.

Basically... it's week 4. If you just thought of this today, throw it on the "eh, no one will do it" pile and move on.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by jamie_1930

Then it doesn't matter for them at all, there job during competition will be to either run defense by blocking the path of the opposing alliance to their tower or to continue scoring during the finale. What I'm trying to get across is that for robots planning to hang from the bar during the finale they should try and include a way for other robots to hang from them as well, there are simple answers to the solution and if implemented effectively can help you obtain substantial points during the match.

I for one am a little weary on the idea that drivers are going to easily be able to grab onto my robot in the right place while begin many feet away and not have a clear line of sight. I don't want a driver to miss and then accidentally rip out my electronics or a piece of the robot that wasn't designed to hold 150 lbs.

So yes adding a bar is an easy solution to getting robots suspended, but you have to think about the trust you are putting into another team to not rip your robot to shreds. Not that you shouldn't trust other teams but when it comes to driving robots, as wells as driving a car in real life, i don't trust anyone to not make mistakes 100% of the time (myself included).

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by jamie_1930

Then it doesn't matter for them at all, there job during competition will be to either run defense by blocking the path of the opposing alliance to their tower or to continue scoring during the finale. What I'm trying to get across is that for robots planning to hang from the bar during the finale they should try and include a way for other robots to hang from them as well, there are simple answers to the solution and if implemented effectively can help you obtain substantial points during the match.

That's the exact opposite of what the original idea of the designs being tossed around in this thread is, though. There are multiple potential methods for lifting an entire alliance regardless of whether or not the other two members were designed to hang. If those 8 points are going to be a large part of your teams' strategy, finding a way to get robot who aren't designed to hang into a suspended position will be a big part of your design challenge.

Beyond that, simply assuming putting a bar in the air will be sufficient for another robot to hang off of you is still awfully presumptuous. You will have to factor in how another robot hanging off of yours impacts your CG (and how that impacts both robots), where that bar will be relative to the field, how to lower each robot at the end of a match, how to avoid complications due to size restraints and the finale configuration (ie, will the haning robot have to be in contact with the tower to get into their finale configuration and can they hang from you if they're contacting the tower?), how to avoid potential damage from hanging mechanisms and suspended robots, and how to elevate (and keep elevated without power) more weight. None of these are trivial questions.

[BrendanB]

I think there will be only 1 if any robots at a regional who can lift two robots, and lifting two will be the only thing they do. Lifting nearly 450lbs of robot is a LOT of weight and stress on components. It will take careful planning to coordinate such an operation and is very VERY risky.

My advice- DON'T DO IT!

Good luck!

[MrFixIt2719]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

I think there will be only 1 if any robots at a regional who can lift two robots, and lifting two will be the only thing they do. Lifting nearly 450lbs of robot is a LOT of weight and stress on components. It will take careful planning to coordinate such an operation and is very VERY risky.

My advice- DON'T DO IT!

Good luck!

lifting 450 lbs is the easy part by using torqued down motor and pullies but making the frame strong so it won't bend is key but we have figured out a good way to overcome that so i can wait to put the bot to its final test

[jamie_1930]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

I for one am a little weary on the idea that drivers are going to easily be able to grab onto my robot in the right place while begin many feet away and not have a clear line of sight. I don't want a driver to miss and then accidentally rip out my electronics or a piece of the robot that wasn't designed to hold 150 lbs.

So yes adding a bar is an easy solution to getting robots suspended, but you have to think about the trust you are putting into another team to not rip your robot to shreds. Not that you shouldn't trust other teams but when it comes to driving robots, as wells as driving a car in real life, i don't trust anyone to not make mistakes 100% of the time (myself included).

There is going to be a matter of trust on whether or not you are going to allow another team to use this method, but is something I think we'll be seeing this year. Also as far as the electronics go it is always a common theme for the games that you need to have a robust design, especially when it comes to electrical components, but you should have these components well protected even if you don't plan on doing this.

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

That's the exact opposite of what the original idea of the designs being tossed around in this thread is, though. There are multiple potential methods for lifting an entire alliance regardless of whether or not the other two members were designed to hang. If those 8 points are going to be a large part of your teams' strategy, finding a way to get robot who aren't designed to hang into a suspended position will be a big part of your design challenge.

Beyond that, simply assuming putting a bar in the air will be sufficient for another robot to hang off of you is still awfully presumptuous. You will have to factor in how another robot hanging off of yours impacts your CG (and how that impacts both robots), where that bar will be relative to the field, how to lower each robot at the end of a match, how to avoid complications due to size restraints and the finale configuration (ie, will the haning robot have to be in contact with the tower to get into their finale configuration and can they hang from you if they're contacting the tower?), how to avoid potential damage from hanging mechanisms and suspended robots, and how to elevate (and keep elevated without power) more weight. None of these are trivial questions.

I still think that a simple bar would be an easy solution and I think you should be able to coordinate this maneuver with little complications. Although I just went back to reread the original post and realized how far off topic I've taken this, so I'll finish here.