Robot length

[yarden.saa]

Our robot is 37.5" long (Frame Perimeter wise). The kicking mechanism, when the robot is completly unenergized protrudes 0.5".
Now, length wise we are OK but we may fail the "Frame against the wall" rule.

Should we push back the "kicker"? Or, we are OK because the total length is OK?

[GaryVoshol]

See <R97> (new rule introduced in Team Update 7). You are permitted to power up the robot during inspection to verify NORMAL CONFIGRATION limits, provided you take the proper safety precautions to protect the inspectors.

I assume your kicker will also be retracted at the beginning of the match when power is turned on. Else you'd pass inspection, but fail when you got to the field.

[Mike Betts]

To reinforce what Gary said:

You will have to push back the kicker for both inspection and for putting your robot on the field.

If this involves stored energy of any kind (spring or precharged pneumatics) you must have a totally fail safe system to protect against accidental discharge during handling.

I strongly suggest removable pins in your trigger mechanism(s) with big red tags saying "Insert before handling - Remove before operation".

Regards,

Mike

[D.Allred]

Mike,
I do not understand why the robot needs to be in NORMAL configuration as we put the robot on the field with power off. Please provide the rule reference. Rule G10 or the definition of NORMAL CONFIGURATION does seem to support your statement. In my opinion, stored energy that is physically held in place with pins creates a greater hazard than it avoids.

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by D.Allred

Mike,
I do not understand why the robot needs to be in NORMAL configuration as we put the robot on the field with power off. Please provide the rule reference. Rule G10 or the definition of NORMAL CONFIGURATION does seem to support your statement. In my opinion, stored energy that is physically held in place with pins creates a greater hazard than it avoids.

OK. I'm not batting a thousand with the GDC this year but this is my thinking...

G30 states that:

<G30> ROBOT Volume – During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:
a. BALL Interaction Volume – Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER ZONE may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds. After returning inside the FRAMER PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least two seconds.

Now, since your robot can not start actually touching a ball at the start of the match (at least I don't think so), your robot would start the match in violation of <G30> and so be subject to a yellow card and penalty.

Now, if that's OK with your team, then you are correct. You do not have to start with the kicker retracted.

However, like I said, my batting average with the GDC is not too good.

Maybe you should ask if that is, in fact, your strategy...

Regards,

Mike

[D.Allred]

Mike,
Thanks for the reply.

My concern is team safety, not strategy. It was my understanding that the MATCH did not start until the robot was enabled. Is this correct?

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by D.Allred

Mike,
Thanks for the reply.

My concern is team safety, not strategy. It was my understanding that the MATCH did not start until the robot was enabled. Is this correct?

This thread is deviating more and more from my (many would say) limited expertise in the area of inspection.

I really think you should ask the GDC.

I would love it if they granted a few seconds if grace at the beginning of Auto to allow kicking mechanisms to retract. It would be far safer.

However, I do not rule the world.

Yet...

Mike

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Yarden,
If your kicker is only beyond the frame by 1/2", is it merely hanging there by gravity? If so, could a small piece of surgical tubing be stretched across the frame to hold it back 1/2" when not powered? It only provides enough force to counteract gravity and should not change your kick style. Could you move just the tip of the kicker?
Although the GDC has allowed us to inspect powered/charged robots, we will be very careful to make such a decision at events. Safety of all is our highest concern.

[GaryVoshol]

The two relevant rules here:

<G10> ROBOT Size – Prior to the MATCH, each ROBOT shall not exceed the NORMAL CONFIGURATION maximum weight or volume specified in Rule <R10>. The Head Referee may call for an inspector's recertification of the ROBOT size and weight prior to the start of any MATCH. Violation (for ROBOTS prior to the match): Prohibition from participating in the MATCH.

So the robot absolutely must fit inside NORMAL CONFIGURATION before the MATCH begins. It is true that if the kicker extends beyond the FRAME PERIMETER, but is within the NORMAL CONFIGURATION, it could be placed onto the field as is.

<G30> ROBOT Volume – During a MATCH, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, except as follows:
a. BALL Interaction Volume – Solely for the purposes of interacting with a BALL, MECHANISMS that are below the BUMPER may extend up to the BUMPER PERIMETER, for a period not exceeding two seconds. After returning inside the FRAMER PERIMETER, such MECHANISMS are not permitted to re-extend beyond the FRAME PERIMETER for at least two seconds.
//snip//
Violation: PENALTY and YELLOW CARD.

But once the match starts, <G30> comes into effect. You can take the PENALTY and YELLOW CARD in your first match. The second and subsequent matches, you get another YELLOW CARD and thus a RED CARD. That's not a good way to get high in the rankings. And it would be a surefire way for other teams to eliminate you from their picklists, as there would be no way to win more than one match in the elimination round.