Suspending

[Grim Tuesday]

OK, so at Fingerlakes regional, we had about 10 robots able to hang (counting the 2 ramp-bots). Out of them, only about 4 could do it consistently. None could suspend. My question is: Has anyone seen any robot be suspended by an alliance robot, and get points for it?

[apalrd]

Here at Kettering, I saw only 1 robot with a clear means for a team to hang off of it. It was never used. Not many robots consistently hung.

[Tomatosoup]

Originally Posted by apalrd

Here at Kettering, I saw only 1 robot with a clear means for a team to hang off of it. It was never used. Not many robots consistently hung.

I assume you're talking about the Enginerds, they did pretty well, also to answer the first question, no.

[Grim Tuesday]

The only robot at FLR that was designed to be "suspended" off of had a wide hook, and other robots were meant to hang off it's hook. However, it became obvious that the hook wasn't large enough for two robots to share, or enough time to get them both elevated.

I am of the opinion that the suspending mechanic does not get enough points to make it worth it, or even is it feasible. In summary, the GDC made a mistake.

[BrendanB]

I think what is making hanging off of other robots hard is that teams have designed their robots with so many different ways to hang. Teams latching on to the side poles or balancing on the bumps and sideswiping a hook on top. Very few teams have near identical means of hanging for it to work.

[Grim Tuesday]

The only types that I have seen multiple of were arm+winch,and bump hooks. Both had a good few at FLR, with the only winch one working well being the X-Cats(191), with their first hang in the last match of the final (although they still lost lol)

[Jamie Kalb]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

...winch one working weel...

Say that ten times fast.

[pfreivald]

We had the wide hook, and even with a lift that would hang us in four seconds (yes, really, four seconds), there wasn't enough time to coordinate a suspension.

After a bump from an opponent almost got us a red card (the wide hook touched the ball return mechanism -- which means that were it a bump from an allied robot, we would have gotten that red card, but because it was from the other alliance we did not), so we removed it and kept part of it because it is bright green, and thus easy for our drivers to see.

If I may so humbly say, we had the best lift of the FLR, hands-down... And we weren't even close to seeing any viable situation where suspension was possible.

Patrick

[Grim Tuesday]

You guys easilly had the best and most reliable lift. The only competing one could be the telescoping arm that worked just about every time too (I forget the team name)

[stevek]

One Idea we had, but never sent time to develop or implement, was to hang and create an identical "bar" from our robot, that would be the same height and position as the field bar when we were in the hanging position. So if we hung, another robot would have a standard element to hang off of. I had a few sketches (using the vertical poles as braces to support the weight and everything) but once the team decided to keep the bot low and go under the tunnel it never got thought of again. Ofcourse that evolved and we have an arm that hangs and we cant go under anything (except the ball return track) and noone thought to implement the other features. But we can hang from the floor or the bump and it works fairly consistnetly. We hung 5 or 6 times in the UTC Pre-Ship Scrimmage. In fact that would make us the first to hang on an official field this season... but it was only a scrimmage!!!

I'm glad to see a few teams figured out how to score (9-10 point games are the highest I saw one Michigan regional was either 10 or 12 during elims). I think if they made hanging few more points more teams would have done it. But look at the results from regionals... how many game results would be reversed with a 2 point bonus. And what if two or three robots hung. I dont htink I ever saw multiple hangers on the same allance. What a shame... those 4-6 points alone would have won 75% of all the matches I saw. So it might not seem like alot of points for one team to spend the time, but multiply that by three robots! I also want Autonomous to be more points... a bonus for the hard work. This is why only a few robots even moved. I saw one that does what we do... three long balls form zone three. many robots just sit and wait. If they made it more points people would have thought about it and innovated more.

[Duncan Macdonald]

Regarding ramps:

SUSPENDED: A ROBOT only in contact with an ELEVATED ROBOT and/or a SUSPENDED ROBOT shall be considered SUSPENDED.

ELEVATED: A ROBOT that is completely above the plane of the PLATFORM and in contact with the TOWER shall be considered ELEVATED.

Unless the ramp bot elevates itself the other two on top won't be suspended.

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

We had the wide hook, and even with a lift that would hang us in four seconds (yes, really, four seconds), there wasn't enough time to coordinate a suspension.

After a bump from an opponent almost got us a red card (the wide hook touched the ball return mechanism -- which means that were it a bump from an allied robot, we would have gotten that red card, but because it was from the other alliance we did not), so we removed it and kept part of it because it is bright green, and thus easy for our drivers to see.

If I may so humbly say, we had the best lift of the FLR, hands-down... And we weren't even close to seeing any viable situation where suspension was possible.

Patrick

I was hoping we could have a match with you. I really wanted to be the first to get the 3 points! Come late friday night we had our hanger all worked out and beautiful. We could lift in 10 seconds or less from the floor in all of our three sat matches with ease.

Originally Posted by Ryan_Davis

...There were some occasional suspensions from Pittsford 3181...

Yeah, we grabbed onto the bar every match, the Friday matches we didn't set up in time or get a full lift. We worked very hard to get the lifter working by our last match Friday. But due to a strategy decision we did not lift our last match on Friday. But come Saturday we did the remaining 3 matches no problem at all. I wished we came up with that solution on Thursday.

If we only count our lifts on Saturday, I would think that we were the best lifter behind 1551. (or no?)

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

I was hoping we could have a match with you. I really wanted to be the first to get the 3 points! Come late friday night we had our hanger all worked out and beautiful. We could lift in 10 seconds or less from the floor in all of our three sat matches with ease.

Unfortunately by then we had removed our bar cover because of a near red-card when it bumped the ball return. (Fortunately, the egregious bump was caused by an opposing alliance robot who will remain nameless -- so they were red-carded instead). Dante warned us of the situation, and we fixed it by removing the bar cover.

Otherwise, it looks like some of you are confusing SUSPENSION with ELEVATION. We had quite a bit of ELEVATION at FLR (more than most of the other regionals, looking at the hanging points), but no SUSPENSIONs.

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

If we only count our lifts on Saturday, I would think that we were the best lifter behind 1551. (or no?)

I think it was a close thing between you guys and 1559 for second place on lifting. Great job, rookies!

Patrick

[Alex Cormier]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Unfortunately by then we had removed our bar cover because of a near red-card when it bumped the ball return. (Fortunately, the egregious bump was caused by an opposing alliance robot who will remain nameless -- so they were red-carded instead). Dante warned us of the situation, and we fixed it by removing the bar cover.

Otherwise, it looks like some of you are confusing SUSPENSION with ELEVATION. We had quite a bit of ELEVATION at FLR (more than most of the other regionals, looking at the hanging points), but no SUSPENSIONs.



I think it was a close thing between you guys and 1559 for second place on lifting. Great job, rookies!

Patrick

Thanks, we will have a improved and ready robot come Ruckus time. Maybe we will pair up then?

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

The only robot at FLR that was designed to be "suspended" off of had a wide hook, and other robots were meant to hang off it's hook. However, it became obvious that the hook wasn't large enough for two robots to share, or enough time to get them both elevated.

I am of the opinion that the suspending mechanic does not get enough points to make it worth it, or even is it feasible. In summary, the GDC made a mistake.

Really? You think they made a mistake?

I'll give you a very brief scenario. In 2007, there were dozens of robots that were able to lift 2 other robots off the floor. Using a VERY similar technique, it is not that difficult to make ramps this year that will do the same. Especially considering the number of long orientation robots, and the flat tops most people are sporting, their bots are almost directly lent to ramps.

Tell me - with the lack of bots that can even hang, what do you say to a single robot with nice big ramps that can "suspend" two bots on those ramps for 6 points? In fact, how many matches would a single suspension for 3 points have turned the tide? I don't know about you, but making the ramps seems much easier than even trying to hang... at least to me.

As time goes on, we'll see higher match scores and the lifting will be a nice cherry on top and not quite so decisive. But one good bot dedicated to ramping the other two for a good 6 points would probably be welcome on most elim teams. Just my opinion of course. Perhaps people simply chose other avenues - I can certainly see ways that would make "suspending" teams fairly easy, and get that 6 points quite a few times.