Am I the only one that thinks that Breakaway is a game for the powerhouse vets?

[Racer26]

Seems to me that this year, moreso than in the past, the dominant powerhouse veterans are winning the events. A number of the big name teams have utterly dominated their regionals.

67 is Champions at 2 events
217 is Champions at 2 events
25 is Champions at 1 event
148 is Champions at 1 event
254 is Champions at 1 event
1114 is Champions at 1 event

It just seems disproportionate to past years... is this year's game too easy?

(side note: team IFI is cleaning house, the constituent teams have won every event they've gone to).

[synth3tk]

You're somewhat correct. This game appears to be much easier than the last few games. Which is why I'm seeing more rookie teams making it into finals and even winning regionals.

Yes, the same "powerhouse" teams will dominate. I'm sure if the game was much harder, they would probably win the competitions anyway. But I'm sure most of them didn't start off all that strong.

[TheOtherGuy]

The list you gave seems entirely normal to me - those are teams that simply win year after year.

[Chris is me]

By Week 3 last year:
67: Undefeated Champions at 1 event
217: Champions at 1 event
25: Off year
148: Champions at 1 event
254: Champions at 1 event
1114: Some pesky midwestereners got in the way.

By week 3 in 2008:
67: Not yet!
217: Champions at 2 events
25: Champions at 1 event
148: Champions at 1 event
254: Champions at 1 event
1114: Champions at 1 event

Considering you picked the powerhouse teams that did well to be on your list (confirmation bias), that's not a bad record in previous years. Powerhouse teams doing well isn't exclusive to Breakaway.

If you want to think positively, there are tons of teams in their breakout year this year. 1732 has always been competitive, but they won TWO back to back events this year. 2345's KC alliance won an event over 1625 and 16. 971 once again hit the ground running this year. I didn't even know who 2016 was until this year. 1676 has won two events in dominant fashion. That's a lot of new talent!

[artdutra04]

Fill in the blank:

Am I the only one that thinks that _________ is a game for the powerhouse vets?

Available Choices:
Breakaway
Lunacy
Overdrive
Rack N Roll
Aim High
Triple Play
FIRST Frenzy
Stack Attack
Zone Zeal
...
Maize Craze

[ExTexan]

I think I'm leaning the other way....this year's game is more difficult to achieve superiority. I was amazed at first, and even second, week how many bots just weren't all together. It takes an "A+" bot and practiced drivers to do what those teams are doing and I think a majority of teams started competition with "B" bots and drive teams that hadn't been able to practice.

But I think we will have a great MI state championship and great nationals. The emergence of the diversion strategy and the bots getting much better should make for some great matches. I think those teams you mention will not be running away at the end.

[Jared Russell]

The members of team IFI were plenty dominant prior to organized collaboration. It should come as no surprise that they continue to do so when working together

Here's some food for thought:

I looked at all of the Regional and District Event winners so far this year, and the #1 seeded alliance has won 64% of the competitions thus far. In fact, only once by my count has an alliance seeded worse than 3rd won the event (I apologize, I don't remember off the top of my head which competition that was).

I haven't had a chance to see how this compares to data from years past, but it seems that in 2010 more than ever the high seeds are winning (for example, team 341 has won 4 regionals in the past 4 seasons, and only once - this year - were we the #1 alliance).

IMHO, the field of really effective robots at most events thus far has been fairly shallow; only a handful of alliances seem to end up with prolific scorers and they tend to run away with the trophies. These teams are also aided by the seeding system this year - more than ever, I am seeing #1 seeds that are fairly predictable.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Jared341

I looked at all of the Regional and District Event winners so far this year, and the #1 seeded alliance has won 64% of the competitions thus far. In fact, only once by my count has an alliance seeded worse than 3rd won the event (I apologize, I don't remember off the top of my head which competition that was).

I haven't had a chance to see how this compares to data from years past, but it seems that in 2010 more than ever the high seeds are winning (for example, team 341 has won 4 regionals in the past 4 seasons, and only once - this year - were we the #1 alliance).

I noticed this. Even at a regional with 29 teams (WPI), the #1 seed faced the #2 in the finals. I thought that was really weird.

[smurfgirl]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I noticed this. Even at a regional with 29 teams (WPI), the #1 seed faced the #2 in the finals. I thought that was really weird.

I actually think this makes more sense at a small regional. The field isn't very deep, so by the time the last seeds get to pick alliance partners there aren't any really strong teams left... the first few alliances end up being the strongest. At larger regionals and on the Championship fields, there is a much deeper pool to draw from, so there can be really strong teams left later in the selection process leading to a lot of well-rounded alliances that are all capable of winning.

In terms of the topic of this thread, I don't think this game is particularly easy for veteran teams over rookie teams. A lot of new talent has been discovered this year, and I've seen a lot of alliances that I might not have expected beforehand because of this.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by smurfgirl

I actually think this makes more sense at a small regional. The field isn't very deep, so by the time the last seeds get to pick alliance partners there aren't any really strong teams left... the first few alliances end up being the strongest. At larger regionals and on the Championship fields, there is a much deeper pool to draw from, so there can be really strong teams left later in the selection process leading to a lot of well-rounded alliances that are all capable of winning.

Agreed. As teams finish/improve their robots and deeper fields show up later in the season, we may well see some more "upsets".

[Racer26]

I see what you're saying Chris, it just seemed like more than usual I could look at the entry list for a regional and pick out the high seeded team which would eventually win it, before the regional even started. Yes, I also realize each team IFI member was strong pre-collaboration, and it only makes sense that they are moreso now, but they're not infallible, they *can* be beaten. They just aren't being beaten.

EDIT: Jason, I totally agree, these teams are not great because of their robot or the game, but rather the team and their program. I just noticed what seemed to be alot of the regionals where there was one super-dominant powerhouse, and everybody else lagging some distance behind.

[dtengineering]

I would suggest that the perrenial powerhouse teams are successful not because of their robot, or because of the game... but because of their team.

The work that goes in during the offseason in developing relationships with sponsors, finding new mentors, and building the team in general means that they are already miles ahead before build season ever starts.

These teams haven't been blessed with some magic ointment that makes them win... unless you consider sweat to be magic.

Jason

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

I would suggest that the perrenial powerhouse teams are successful not because of their robot, or because of the game... but because of their team.

The work that goes in during the offseason in developing relationships with sponsors, finding new mentors, and building the team in general means that they are already miles ahead before build season ever starts.

These teams haven't been blessed with some magic ointment that makes them win... unless you consider sweat to be magic.

Jason

I agree.

Breakaway is a simple game with simple rules.

Veteran teams who actually have any sort of spiral in their engineering process will be able to take advantage of that specific fact by designing something simple and perfecting it over ... and over ... and over. This was the primary reason I so fervently argued for my team to do 2 kickers instead of 1 kicker and hang -- one would be simple to play a simple game and the other would be complex for the complex strategies. It worked out for the most part; we simply need a better elims maintenance plan for the future .

On another interesting note, to me it seems like there are more high-numbered teams in eliminations than ever -- teams with numbers ~2600+. And these teams don't go down during a lopsided match either!

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by Jared341

I looked at all of the Regional and District Event winners so far this year, and the #1 seeded alliance has won 64% of the competitions thus far. In fact, only once by my count has an alliance seeded worse than 3rd won the event (I apologize, I don't remember off the top of my head which competition that was).

Could this have something to do with the new ranking system that actually puts the top teams in the top 8? At the events that I was at (WI and Midwest), I think the top 8 teams were generally the best teams at the regional. It seems to rank the teams better than in previous years.

[BrendanB]

Powerhouse teams will always do good no matter what year. Some more often than others. But for GSR, no real powerhouse teams won. 78 and 121 (who have won 3 in the past 5 years) lost or were finalists along with teams 175,40,126,20 and a few others. Teams 1922, 1073, 1058, 1519us, 238, and others did really well at this years GSR. Powerhouses will always be powerhouses, but there are always teams right on their tails who can do just as good or better.

Teams 1922 and 1073 are really good!

And yes, a team's program also makes them a powerhouse on and off the field!

EDIT: I do understand that the teams I labelled as "powerhouses" are not as good as teams like 111,1114,254,1625,etc. but up here they are.