After Coming Back From The LA Regional: My Thoughts On FIRST

[davidthefat]

First of all, this is my very first year of doing any robotics clubs or anything. I noticed that FIRST is actually pretty lame overall. Its not very professional as they make it sound ("Gracious Professionalism") Sure I do see some graciousness, but I do not see the professionalism. Teams are willing to help and give stuff out, but in the end, their sole purpose is selfishness. All they want is points and reputation. It was more like a fashion show than an actual robot competition. All the teams were trying to advertise their team by wearing stupid costumes and decorating their pits. My school is not very rich, I know that the "richer" schools got a lot more funding than us, but I am not complaining about that. I seen some AMAZING robots this regional, unfortunately its the only regional we can attend, since we lack the funding. Well since our school is not very rich, our sports department lacks fancy uniforms and equipments. Since I am in Football and Track, I seen professionalism. We show professionalism by not talking with our mouths but the scoreboard. IDK, I think FIRST competition system is not the best system... In before flames. I am sure there are people out there with similar ideas...

[Chris is me]

Before this thread blows up, thanks for presenting your viewpoint with at least a touch of respect, and without calling out other teams for doing anything. I disagree with most of what you say, but I'm glad you made your point without giving people a reason to discount it immediately.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Before this thread blows up, thanks for presenting your viewpoint with at least a touch of respect, and without calling out other teams for doing anything. I disagree with most of what you say, but I'm glad you made your point without giving people a reason to discount it immediately.

Well I was hoping that the competition was soley based on points and stuff, all numbers, not people's opinions on our robots. I didn't like that fact that the judges did not judge on points but on the word of mouth of the teams. And for the finals, the teams chose teams, I think it should have been random teams out of the top 15 or something. Sometimes, Simple and clean is the best, not all fancy over the top stuff like I seen in alot of teams. just consistency and being good at what you do

[EricH]

FRC selections are like building your own football team.

I don't see that the competition is based on people's opinions; the only part that is is the alliance selection, and the better scouts know that the only thing that matters is what you do on the field. Unfortunately, due to human nature, insulting a scout will wind you up with a note about "Rude team. Use caution." (Not saying you did, just stating a general fact.)

Judges have their own system. It involves going around and looking at the robots. If they like what they see, they'll come and talk to the team. That's how the awards are given, and that's the way it's called out in the rules for the awards to be judged.

By the way, I wouldn't make such general comments about "all the teams" doing something if I were you. I know that a number of teams do not decorate their pits or wear costumes (and stupidity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder). If you walked into your archrival's football training facility and started making comments like that, no matter how it was decorated, I would bet that you'd find out very quickly why football and track athletes talk with the scoreboard instead of their mouths. Quite a number of teams do decorate their pits, and that's fine by me--they're trying to attract the attention of the top 8. For the L.A. top 5 or so this year, it wouldn't have worked very well. Those teams tend to scout the field performance, and they do very well at that.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by EricH

FRC selections are like building your own football team.

I don't see that the competition is based on people's opinions; the only part that is is the alliance selection, and the better scouts know that the only thing that matters is what you do on the field. Unfortunately, due to human nature, insulting a scout will wind you up with a note about "Rude team. Use caution." (Not saying you did, just stating a general fact.)

Judges have their own system. It involves going around and looking at the robots. If they like what they see, they'll come and talk to the team. That's how the awards are given, and that's the way it's called out in the rules for the awards to be judged.

By the way, I wouldn't make such general comments about "all the teams" doing something if I were you. I know that a number of teams do not decorate their pits or wear costumes (and stupidity, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder). If you walked into your archrival's football training facility and started making comments like that, no matter how it was decorated, I would bet that you'd find out very quickly why football and track athletes talk with the scoreboard instead of their mouths. Quite a number of teams do decorate their pits, and that's fine by me--they're trying to attract the attention of the top 8. For the L.A. top 5 or so this year, it wouldn't have worked very well. Those teams tend to scout the field performance, and they do very well at that.

Team 330? You had a beast of a robot this year, but IDK, the announcer guy made it seem so unprofessional for me...Yea sure his job may be to entertain, but he was acting unprofessional IMHO... Do you see DARPA Grand Challenge announcers doing that? I think not

[EricH]

Does the DARPA Grand Challenge even have announcers?

And I believe that you are referring to the emcee, who's job is to fire up the crowd, much like a cheerleader at a football game. If you object to that, then I suggest that you float a proposition to disband any cheer squad you have at your high school.

Spoiler for :

[/satire]

[Rion Atkinson]

I didn't read very much past the OP. So if I am restating something... Well. I frankly don't care.

You say that we are "Selfish" if that is true. Why, in the middle of mass chaos of our robot not working, did I take time out to help out any time that asked? Why, when our programmer was deep in his work, did I request that he go help another team? Out of selfishness? Or selflessness?

Unproffesional to be selfish? Sense when?!? Why does you team get money from the state, sponsors, ect. Because they want smart employees! It is NOT out of the bottom of their heart. (Most of the time) So before you say that everyone is selfish and unproffesional. Take a look at the reason WalMart buys from China instead of the USA.

[MagiChau]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Team 330? You had a beast of a robot this year, but IDK, the announcer guy made it seem so unprofessional for me...Yea sure his job may be to entertain, but he was acting unprofessional IMHO... Do you see DARPA Grand Challenge announcers doing that? I think not

I have not heard the announcer at this event but what do you exactly define as unprofessional from the person?

[Cory]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Team 330? You had a beast of a robot this year, but IDK, the announcer guy made it seem so unprofessional for me...Yea sure his job may be to entertain, but he was acting unprofessional IMHO... Do you see DARPA Grand Challenge announcers doing that? I think not

To be fair you are thinking of the MC, not the announcer. I don't know who the announcer was, but I thought he was fantastic. very knowledgeable about the game and the robots. I was not a big fan of the MC.

[TKM.368]

Originally Posted by Cory

To be fair you are thinking of the MC, not the announcer. I don't know who the announcer was, but I thought he was fantastic. very knowledgeable about the game and the robots. I was not a big fan of the MC.

Game announcer there was Dave Seidel of JPL. We were most fortunate to have him with us last year. He collects a bunch of info from the teams on Thursday and when the match list comes out, puts together a spreadsheet and pops out his own announcer sheets.

Here's an older conversation with Dave about what he does, etc.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Well I was hoping that the competition was soley based on points and stuff, all numbers, not people's opinions on our robots. I didn't like that fact that the judges did not judge on points but on the word of mouth of the teams. And for the finals, the teams chose teams, I think it should have been random teams out of the top 15 or something.

Two things.

In regard to the awards (which I believe you are referring to with the judges). First, if you read the disciption of the awards, most of them include the requirement of the team being able to communicate and explain how it works. Secondly, once you apply to colleges and then to jobs, being able to explain and market yourself is extremely important. They do not soley 'go by the numbers' (gpa, test scores...). Like everything in life, opinion matters. In this sense, the awards are actually very 'professional'.

In regards to alliance selection, I can understand how it seems silly to have the teams pick their partners. In the past, teams were paired up based on their rankings. But, picking your partners is a huge reward to those teams that were the best on Friday and Saturday morning. I think it would be silly not to reward those teams and do it randomly.

I urge you to give FIRST another try.

[GaryVoshol]

Picking of alliances is similar to professional sports drafts. You pick a player who you think will work well with your team, whether or not that player is the highest ranked or not.

And the atmosphere of sporting events is far beyond just what goes on the field/court. The cheerleaders, announcers, team mascots, gimmicks at time-outs or halftime, music, singing "Take Me Out to the Ball Game", etc - what does any of that have to do with the game? It doesn't, but it makes the whole experience into entertainment. That's also one of the goals of FRC. Sure, sometimes things go a little overboard or get sappy. But a FRC competition isn't meant to be like a symposium reading engineering papers either.

Sorry if the event didn't meet your expectations. But were you at all inspired during the whole season, from kickoff through build to competition?

[davidthefat]

Funny thing was, I was playing Madden on the Laptop half the time.. LOL if you seen me, you probably will recognize me... the big asian guy with a buzz cut playing madden

David-

Think of the competitions like a High School football team. No matter how awesome you are, you won't get national attention. It's High School. It's about learning to be athletic, and honing yourself and your team. High School football is more about the team than it is about the winning or losing.

FIRST is the same way.

[MagiChau]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Funny thing was, I was playing Madden on the Laptop half the time.. LOL if you seen me, you probably will recognize me... the big asian guy with a buzz cut playing madden

You could try giving FRC a shot by not playing a video game for a lot of the time? Teams would slam down on the vast disinterest shown by going all the way to competition then spend a lot of time looking at a video game.