2010 Lesson Learned: The Negative

[Koko Ed]

What could have FIRST done better this year?

[Peter Matteson]

NO GAME OBJECT IN THE KIT OF PARTS!

FIRST never do this to us again! The surface finish on the balls was so specific at driving the design of ball handling mechanisms and you screwed it up again by chosing something we couldn't get and not warning the manufacturer to stock up because a huge influx of orders would be coming.

[Jared Russell]

Peter and Tom just addressed #1 and #2 on my list.

I would like to see a stronger incentive for using the camera (and autonomous mode in general).

The Classmate is at best a work in progress. Between Windows startup times and power management woes, battery life, USB enumeration issues, powering the USB ports, cheapo Ethernet ports, and the tedium of "FMS Locked" and E-stop, I think we can do a lot better.

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Peter and Tom just addressed #1 and #2 on my list.

I would like to see a stronger incentive for using the camera (and autonomous mode in general).

The Classmate is at best a work in progress. Between Windows startup times and power management woes, battery life, USB enumeration issues, powering the USB ports, cheapo Ethernet ports, and the tedium of "FMS Locked" and E-stop, I think we can do a lot better.

Add in the impossibility of getting replacement parts like batteries for the classmate to that list.

[The Cyborg]

I didn't like the many field problems experienced at the competitions. Sometimes matches get delayed for 10-20 minutes because of these problems. The Kettering District competition lasted until 7:00PM because of the many field issues that needed to be worked on. I know the system had to be rebooted a few times, but each of those reboots took up to a half hour each! FIRST or National Instruments needs to find a way to make problems like these quicker to solve and fix to make things run smoother.
I also didn't like how it is hard to figure whether or not it is a field or a robot problem when a robot doesn't run during a match. There needs to be a system in place that determines functionality of both the field and the robot to better determine where the problem is coming from.

[kjolana1124]

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson

NO GAME OBJECT IN THE KIT OF PARTS!

FIRST never do this to us again! The surface finish on the balls was so specific at driving the design of ball handling mechanisms and you screwed it up again by chosing something we couldn't get and not warning the manufacturer to stock up because a huge influx of orders would be coming.

I would simply suggest that FIRST warn manufacturers that come January 9th there may or may not be a swarm of 14-18 year old children demanding to buy this product. Who said stores can't have a Black Saturday as well?

[Peter Matteson]

Originally Posted by kjolana1124

I would simply suggest that FIRST warn manufacturers that come January 9th there may or may not be a swarm of 14-18 year old children demanding to buy this product. Who said stores can't have a Black Saturday as well?

We've been reccomending that to FIRST for several years that they warn the vendors so there is a stock. It would be win win for the vendor and the teams but FIRST has yet to do so, hence the comment. In 2009 they supposedly went with something that would be readily available, but FIRST's order interferred with Walmart getting their order and Walmart cancelled so we could no longer buy them easily.

[synth3tk]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Perhaps it's the frequency in which so many teams were yelling "ROBOT!" when there was no one even close by, that caused everyone else to become annoyed and ignorant of teams actually trying to clear their way through. For next year, howabout we have everyone try leaving their pit area a little earlier, and taking their time to walk with everyone else, instead of trying to blast through/past them all.

Even I started becoming somewhat unaware of the "ROBOT COMING THROUGH!" shouts in the pits (though I'm guilty of saying it myself). The problem, at least at Buckeye this year, was that the pit walkways were blocked way too often. You couldn't flow with the traffic, because there was no traffic to flow with. I remember our aisle being congested constantly due to two teams apart from each other having so many visitors constantly that they would overflow into the walkway. The backs from one group almost touched the backs of another.

Unfortunately, that "ROBOT!" chant wasn't enough to even break through sometimes. I'd stand there for what seemed like ages, shouting at the top of my lungs before they'd even realize I was right behind them. I think we'd eliminate a lot of the shouts if the pits were actually passable at all times.

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson

We've been reccomending that to FIRST for several years that they warn the vendors so there is a stock. It would be win win for the vendor and the teams but FIRST has yet to do so, hence the comment. In 2009 they supposedly went with something that would be readily available, but FIRST's order interferred with Walmart getting their order and Walmart cancelled so we could no longer buy them easily.

That was a mess, especially because an orbit ball wasn't exactly a household item that you could find anywhere. Neither were the rings in 2007, if I recall correctly.

This is a pretty big deal that could be solved easily by more communication with FIRST. I assume they're worried that details about the gamepiece/game being leaked early, but I'm sure most companies wouldn't mind keeping a secret for a few weeks or months in exchange for an influx in orders from teams around the country.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

Unfortunately, that "ROBOT!" chant wasn't enough to even break through sometimes. I'd stand there for what seemed like ages, shouting at the top of my lungs before they'd even realize I was right behind them. I think we'd eliminate a lot of the shouts if the pits were actually passable at all times.

I teach preschool, and it's so interesting to me how similar 4 year olds and high schoolers are to each other.

Have you ever had someone yell in your face about something? Do you actually hear their words, or do you hear OBNOXIOUSLY LOUD NOISES?! Combine that with being in the Pit Area, which is already an obnoxiously loud area, and you don't register any loud noise because it's blending in with the rest of the loud noises that you've blocked out.

Now, have you ever had someone whisper something to you? Maybe you didn't quite understand what they said right away, but you heard the whisper, and it intrigued you enough to pay attention.

Instead of yelling "ROBOT" and push through, perhaps we could all walk with the crowd, and then when it gets congested, gently tap the person who is in the way, say, "Excuse me, we need to get through for our match" in a polite tone, with a smile on our faces.

I tell my four year olds, "Use your gentle words". Most of the time it works for high schoolers too.

[Tom Line]

Truthfully? As far the game goes, my only REAL complaint was the DOGMA system. Ok idea, bad implementation. Should have been 1 point penalty once per ball, not repeated penalties.

[Radical Pi]

This wasn't completely FIRST's problem, but the discontinuation of the WGA bridges and their replacement with the WET bridges was a bit of a problem that could have been avoided by some more testing on FIRST's part to make sure there weren't any major problems with it (long connection times, disconnecting WGA bridges, etc.)

EDIT: agreement with most of the stuff with the classmate on the above post

[zman2865]

Ok first of all i'm going to say i appreciate all the volunteers that helped out with FIRST FRC robotics this year and every year, but i think that FIRST needs to have a code of conduct for when it comes to inspecting a teams robot. For example having to ask to move your robot at ANY and EVERY time they wish to do so, ect. the reason i say that is because this year when we went to Atlanta we missed our very first match because during our teams inspection the inspector moved our robot while it was off while this doesn't seem like a problem it is because our team decided to use CAN this year and when he moved our robot he sent reverse current into our jaguars thus completely ruining functionality of 3 of our jaguars it was to bad that the only thing the texas instruments guy could do for us was give us three new jaguars(after 30min. of trying to fix them. on top of the at least 1 hour inspection) and after that things just went down hill for our team.

[efoote868]

I didn't like that we have to reuse control systems from a previous year. *thinks about the pile of robot skeletons in the closet*

I didn't like the no-bonus autonomous.

I didn't like the low scoring matches.

I didn't like how the game wasn't conducive to defense.

[Grim Tuesday]

I dont like the seeding system. Although, next year, with a new game, I hope for a new seeding system more like elims.

EDIT: Suspension. With only about 5 total in the season, it was a completely failed game mechanic.

[Tom Ore]

It looked to me like some robots at the championships had issues (weight, electrical, pneumatic) that needed to be fixed but passed inspection at the regionals. I don't think they're doing teams a favor by letting them through regionals this way. Maybe they can issue conditional inspection approvals to let teams compete but all issues need to be corrected before the eliminations. That way teams earning their way to Altanta would be confident they are good to go.