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Unread 10-07-2010, 16:20
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To go to Championships...or not....

so the dates have been released for Championships.... April 27-30 i believe.

Which happens to be the weekend before AP tests. 100% of our students take AP exams. A few take about 7 each year. Our mentors have finals that Monday. So....the idea has been thrown around in our group to attend 3 regionals without the intent to attend championships.

I was just curious on what peoples thoughts on that was? Are any other teams in the same situation?

And this is only thoughts, not saying this is our plan.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 16:52
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

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Originally Posted by Andrew Y. View Post
So....the idea has been thrown around in our group to attend 3 regionals without the intent to attend championships.
Well, from one GA Team to another, in the past, I would've jumped on the chance to go to nationals. In next year's case, nationals aren't exactly in our backyard, and a trip to St. Louis would meaning coming back Saturday afternoon at the latest. Which, in this case, means a day of rest before students began the exam sessions.

But there is no doubt that the splendor of championships is beyond that of any regional, and it'll be interesting to see if FIRST does something new in St. Louis.

With this said, our school takes AP testing very seriously, so I'm wondering if our school would even let our students go to nationals on these dates...

I would recommend if you are able to, and your students/their parents have no issues, then go for it. Try and get some studying done on the bus/plane. Implement a study session in the afternoon.

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Unread 20-07-2010, 12:46
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

We had an interesting discussion about this at our the executive mentor group last night. We basically came to the conclusion that this is a decision best left up to the student and his family.

Being an AP teacher myself AND the coach of the team... I can see a variety of issues here. I understand that college finals can be an issue but in the end, as much as I enjoy having college mentors around, I am reminded that this is a high school program and that is what this dilemma should be focused on.

College finals and other activities have always been an issue with FIRST in regionals and in finals.

For the high school student it is easy for me to cop out and say
"If you don't know it by now you won't learn it in the last 2-3 days"
I am not sure that for some finals that this is a correct statement.

I teach both AP Physics and AP Environmental Science and these tests are dominated by ideas and the application of them... more so in physics and APES....

For classes that have much to be memorized... for instance AP History...
I can see this being an issue... a last minute cram session might add a few points.... I am not really sure about this... although in the scheme of everything a late night cram session is ONLY good for the test... it will never really add to your learning...

Learning takes time... and has to be nurtured over weeks and weeks of lecture, projects, labs, papers, study and reading....
This is what I am really after... as a teacher...

So the idea that the last few days are critical for the test really doesn't hold much water for me... although some study sessions are certainly valuable for the test.

So I see the real issue here... the exhaustion that always comes with the Championships.... I do think that this is really just an issue for tests taken on the first day.... or perhaps the first two days.... depending on when you get back...

I believe that on our team I will be discussing this issue with students and parents....

My own opinion is that perhaps a student could go to the Championships and leave on Saturday night and then be rested enough to be able to do well on a Monday test with a full Sunday to rest...

Another option might be to go for just Wed-Friday and take an early flight back home...

Being an AP Environmental Science teacher... I do suggest something else..a partial solution...
I will volunteer to lead a study session for the APES test for anyone that wants to attend...AT the championships.... it might be fun.... it could certainly be interesting....

Maybe we could find an AP Chem teacher and an AP Psychology teacher to do something similar....
If we could perhaps find a room at the championships to do this... I think it might, at least. be a partial solution to all those seniors out their that have been waiting to go to Championships their entire FIRST career....

Anyone interested in this?
I am thinking about 90 minutes somewhere.... student discussions... study groups.... lecture.... whatever we want....

????
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Unread 20-07-2010, 15:37
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

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Originally Posted by Bob Steele View Post
For classes that have much to be memorized... for instance AP History...
I can see this being an issue... a last minute cram session might add a few points.... I am not really sure about this... although in the scheme of everything a late night cram session is ONLY good for the test... it will never really add to your learning...
The AP world and US History tests are surprisingly pretty easy when you pay attention in class. Most of the subject matter deals with common ideals and topics during certain time periods, so the tests leave much for the student to infer and answer appropriately. To be honest, I did only pay attention in AP World but did not study and received a 4 (for my standards that is good enough).
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Unread 20-07-2010, 17:55
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

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Originally Posted by Bob Steele View Post
My own opinion is that perhaps a student could go to the Championships and leave on Saturday night and then be rested enough to be able to do well on a Monday test with a full Sunday to rest...

Another option might be to go for just Wed-Friday and take an early flight back home...
If it's just one student, you're probably OK. If it's a large group, make sure it's the latest possible flight out--you never know when something unexpected (like, you know, winning the Championship) will come up. Or get the earliest possible flight on Sunday (short sleep Saturday night + airplane sleep + resting on Sunday).
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Unread 20-07-2010, 19:29
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

Or go to IRI instead.

Shorter speeches, better entertainment, and tougher competition. An all around great value.
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Unread 20-07-2010, 20:13
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

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Or go to IRI instead.

Shorter speeches, better entertainment, and tougher competition. An all around great value.
Don't forget you have to qualify first

I say this mostly because a small portion of my team has wanted to do this for awhile. We have to remind them that we need to prove ourselves to get there, unlike the real Championship.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 16:56
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

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Originally Posted by Andrew Y. View Post
Our mentors have finals that Monday.
This is a big big red flag for me.

Jane
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Unread 10-07-2010, 18:28
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

Studying early is just a matter of being disciplined. If success on a test hinges on studying the material in the one or two days/nights just before the exam, then you haven't mastered the material. That doesn't mean that no one "survives" academically by cramming before exams; but it does mean that studying right before a test is not required.

Returning rested might mean missing out on enough of the fun to make the trip a poor choice, or might not.

Perhaps folks only travel if they do well on a practice exam (or in study hall sessions?) taken shortly before the trip?

Blake
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Unread 10-07-2010, 22:26
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

You have a week between the Championship and the very first AP exam. I honestly don't think anyone needs to cram for tests for that long. If APs were the very next week, I would say no. but they'll have at least 8 days for the close - to - test intensive review. If they need more than 8 days, I have trouble believing they paid attention at all in class.

IMO 3 regionals is actually more detrimental to academic success, since unless you go 1-3-5 or 2-4-6 you will be doing back to back at least once.

Mentors having finals on Monday? That's rather different, and those are actual college classes. No way should they go.
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Unread 10-07-2010, 22:56
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
You have a week between the Championship and the very first AP exam. I honestly don't think anyone needs to cram for tests for that long. If APs were the very next week, I would say no. but they'll have at least 8 days for the close - to - test intensive review. If they need more than 8 days, I have trouble believing they paid attention at all in class.

IMO 3 regionals is actually more detrimental to academic success, since unless you go 1-3-5 or 2-4-6 you will be doing back to back at least once.

Mentors having finals on Monday? That's rather different, and those are actual college classes. No way should they go.
the Exam starts May 2, the Monday after Championships.......

And yes, we will be having a meeting with the team parents, mentors, teachers, and school representatives to discuss if we can go.

Jane: Yea.....im 99.99% sure i wont be albe to attend. WAY too much at stake. Though i may be able to change my finals schedual. The dean of my school happens to love FIRST and be very involved. but even then.....professors dont like it when you are the ONLY one they have to make another exam for...

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Unread 11-07-2010, 00:33
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

May be a week after the CMP (I am not sure aqbout the date) I will have my final exam in computer science that is one of the most important for me
hard decision!
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Unread 11-07-2010, 01:45
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

SEVEN AP exams by one student? That just sounds excessive. I know this isn't a debate about the merits of AP tests, but how is it even possible for a student taking 7 AP exams (I assume that is probably more like 3-4 AP courses, with 3-4 exams being taken independently) to make a meaningful contribution to an extracurricular activity?
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Unread 11-07-2010, 02:34
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

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SEVEN AP exams by one student? That just sounds excessive. I know this isn't a debate about the merits of AP tests, but how is it even possible for a student taking 7 AP exams (I assume that is probably more like 3-4 AP courses, with 3-4 exams being taken independently) to make a meaningful contribution to an extracurricular activity?
You'd be surprised. We've had kids who have done things like this and have been the backbones of either programming or mechanical.

Also, I don't know many people who study more than a few days for AP tests, especially if they put in the effort during the course of the year. Your kids should be fine.
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Unread 11-07-2010, 02:36
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Re: To go to Championships...or not....

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Originally Posted by Andrew Y. View Post
so the dates have been released for Championships.... April 27-30 i believe.

Which happens to be the weekend before AP tests. 100% of our students take AP exams. A few take about 7 each year. Our mentors have finals that Monday. So....the idea has been thrown around in our group to attend 3 regionals without the intent to attend championships.

I was just curious on what peoples thoughts on that was? Are any other teams in the same situation?

And this is only thoughts, not saying this is our plan.
I have a tough time sympathizing, what I'm hearing is you and your students have the foresight 9 months ahead of time to identify the issue. Why not just prepare ahead of time.

I took a good deal of APs in high school, it wasn't very difficult to prepare ahead of time; AP classes/tests aren't nearly as hard as people make them out to be (or useful as they're said to be for that matter).

Let the kids make an adult decision, they're adult enough to take more than a full course-load of college classes after all.
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