Mini Bot - displeasure

[Mike Martus]

Am I the only person out in the Community of FIRST that thinks the constraints of Tetrix (FTC kit) to build the mini bot is UNFAIR!

Up until this year Michigan was discouraged from FTC as FIRST was scared that they would loose FRC Growth due to costs. Now the winds have changed and we are asked to do something that is not possible. Not possible because:
1. Many of us do not have $400.00 for a basic kit + all the extra stuff that will make the amount higher..
2. No kits are available for purchase. This is the BIG one!!!!

If FIRST is pushing FTC you would think that they would have made sure that there was a stock for kits..... after all there are MANY more FRC teams than FTC teams - especially in Michigan.

I do get that FIRST is trying to compete with VEX - but at our expense and stress level.

[Zachary Pilarsk]

a fellow michigan team feeling the constraints this really stinks for us

it also forces all teams to build nearly the same mini bot

[smistthegreat]

I definitely second this, as my team is also in a place without many FTC teams, and we just don't have the access to the kit! That's a pretty steep investment to ask of any team, and to force it on some teams simply because they are inconveniently located in relation to FTC teams is quite honestly unfair.

[Navid Shafa]

I have to say that I think that their idea was a good one, but their execution was poor. If you are unable to acquire one, due to mistakes on their part, that is truly unfair. You would think that if they knew these kind of things were coming, surplus stock would be prepared. I suppose you could do exactly what they want you to do, find the closest FTC team, and hope that they are generous. Sorry for the predicament this has put you and others in, good luck!

[Mike Schreiber]

Mike I couldn't agree more. Not only is the restriction ridiculous and the availability even worse.

Teams who aren't competing until week 2 might as well just wait and see what everyone else did, because with update #1 there is no point in innovation.

[ttldomination]

I do agree that this is a bit "limiting" but I think you also have to look at it from FIRST's point of view, the biggest thing being damage to their sensors. If one of these bots shoots up in under a second, I think that could do some significant damage to a sensor.

- Sunny

[Navid Shafa]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

From FIRST's point of view, the biggest thing being damage to their sensors. If one of these bots shoots up in under a second, I think that could do some significant damage to a sensor.

- Sunny

With the limited resources allowed, I'd be surprised to see a minibot that was able to do significant damage, even with the old rule set. The plates are designed to take at least 4-5 Newtons I'd bet even more. Knowing FIRST, these things will be made durable anyways, considering how much wear and tear it will receive at a regional event. I think it's A, a safety issue and B, a uniformity and regulation issue.

[smistthegreat]

Also, although I agree with the minibot change as a safety concern, I am still displeased with the execution of the minibot idea. Along with being unfair to teams without FTC teams near them, it changes the dynamic of the minibot race. Instead of "Whose unique minibot can get to the top first?" it becomes "Whose robot can get to the tower and have their drivers press a button with 10 seconds left in order to get basically the same minibot as everyone else to start climbing first?"

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Navid Shafa

With the limited resources allowed, I'd be surprised to see a minibot that was able to do significant damage, even with the old rule set. The plates are designed to take at least 4-5 Newtons I'd bet even more. Knowing FIRST, these things will be made durable anyways, considering how much wear and tear it will receive at a regional event. I think it's A, a safety issue and B, a uniformity and regulation issue.

Actually, we were concerned we'd blow the top off the scoring pole. Using surgical tubing as an energy storage device in your minibot, you could easily put several hundred pounds of force into spinning your wheels to climb the pole with some very simply engineering. Hint - that's exactly how many teams kicked the soccer balls and launched the track balls. Now picture the same with something weighing under a pound total.

Limiting us to only the electrical energy available in the 12V battery is a smart move on FIRST's part. Limiting us to FTC components only is disappointing. However, it is what it is - we'll move on like everyone else and do our best to figure out a way to make a minibot with no FTC teams to give us parts.

[Justin Stiltner]

Tom,
Read the rules about what you can construct your robot with. You only are required to use the tetrix battery and motors. The rest of the mechanical can be built from standard FRC parts, Aluminum, polycarb, etc!!!

The point bill is trying to make is that as I mentioned, the NXT brick is not required. Currently there are no rules specifically for the mini bot electrical system. As such one could use the two household electrical switches to power your motors. This will allow your robot to be lighter and avoid needing to buy a NXT controller brick and the tetrix motor controller.

[1086VEX]

Even though 1086 participates in the FTC competition, i was hoping that they wouldn't limit us to just tetrix. For one, it may stop our FTC team from competing in further regional competitions this season which will be sad to see. As many also said its unfair for teams that compete in the VRC. Granted they did give us the option to use other material other than just tetrix i would've much preferred to see the possibility of some VEX or other system based minibots.

As far as the limiting of creativity goes i don't buy it. the whole Tetrix system is about being creative and with the additional materials, there are still many possibilities.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by Justin Stiltner

Tom,
Read the rules about what you can construct your robot with. You only are required to use the tetrix battery and motors. The rest of the mechanical can be built from standard FRC parts, Aluminum, polycarb, etc!!!

The point bill is trying to make is that as I mentioned, the NXT brick is not required. Currently there are no rules specifically for the mini bot electrical system. As such one could use the two household electrical switches to power your motors. This will allow your robot to be lighter and avoid needing to buy a NXT controller brick and the tetrix motor controller.

Oh Justin, you let the cat out.

And, unless FIRST changes the rules, there will be exactly 0 NXT controllers in our Minibot. 0<1.

[JB987]

Originally Posted by billbo911

Oh Justin, you let the cat out.

And, unless FIRST changes the rules, there will be exactly 0 NXT controllers in our Minibot. 0<1.

We are hoping to get by with motors, battery and light switches only as our electrical system but what about " associated,appropriate circuitry)." Will the inspectors apply the FTC standards that do require use of motor controllers and NXT? Bottom line...what constitutes [b]appropriate circuitry[b]?

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by Justin Stiltner

Tom,
Read the rules about what you can construct your robot with. You only are required to use the tetrix battery and motors. The rest of the mechanical can be built from standard FRC parts, Aluminum, polycarb, etc!!!

The point bill is trying to make is that as I mentioned, the NXT brick is not required. Currently there are no rules specifically for the mini bot electrical system. As such one could use the two household electrical switches to power your motors. This will allow your robot to be lighter and avoid needing to buy a NXT controller brick and the tetrix motor controller.

Justin,

Re-read the rules about MINIBOT construction. The only "required" item is the battery.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Jack Jones

Justin,

Re-read the rules about MINIBOT construction. The only "required" item is the battery.

Jack, that is true. However, if you want your minibot to move vertically, then you need to read Update #1, specifically the blue box that now accompanies <G19>. NXT motors are now required equipment for vertical motion.