Team 100 what are you up too?!?!

[Justin Montois]

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16273

2011FRC0100:
regarding section 5.5.4 of the Tournament manual:

Is there a limit to the number of red cards a team can receive before being disqualified from the competition?

GDC:

No, there is no limit on the number of RED CARDS a TEAM may receive. We are nervous that you ask the question.

Funny GDC.

[Chickenonastick]

They're the Wildhats, what do you expect???

Jokes aside, Team 100 is a very kind team both on and off the field. I keenly recall them giving some sandwiches to our team at SVR last year.

[EricH]

The GDC should be nervous. I don't know anything specific about what Team 100 has planned, but there is a red-card offense that will probably account for 50% or more of all Friday red cards.

<T03> says that if a non-inspected (or not re-inspected) partner participates in a match and this is discovered, the entire alliance is red carded. I haven't seen any clarification on whether the team simply not showing up absolves the partners of that red card, but I certainly hope that that is the case.

If you have not been inspected, or you have modified your robot and not been re-inspected, do your partners a favor: don't show up to the match, but tell them beforehand that you haven't been inspected so they can plan on your not being there!

I think that's what Team 100 was worried about. I would be willing to bet that most of the questions on rankings (i.e., why are we so low, we won 5 matches and we're only listed as winning 2) will come from teams whose partners had robots that hadn't passed, and sent a human player to the field.

[aldaeron]

I am glad Team 100 asked about multiple red cards. Particularly because of these two rules.

<G21> HOSTBOTS may only DEPLOY MINIBOTS onto their ALLIANCE‟S TOWERS and entire below the DEPLOYMENT LINE.
Violation: RED CARD

<G23> Contact (via ROBOT or GAME PIECE) with the opposing ALLIANCE‟S TOWERS is prohibited.
Violation: RED CARD

So if the minibot deployment mechanism breaks, fails or has a "it never did that before" causing the minibot to be placed half an inch too high our score for that match is 0 (RED CARD)?! I realize that testing and reliability are important, but this seems like a huge penalty. I think a few PENALTIES and tower disablement for a small error, RED CARD for obvious infractions is more appropriate.

Or if we are driving to the scoring pegs near the caution line (where there will likely be a lot of contact), get bumped, then turn the wrong way and bump the game piece into the tower our score for that match is 0 (RED CARD)?! I realize that another team cannot force you to get a penalty, but they can accidentally bump you toward a tower or pin you and then a simple mistake leads to a RED CARD. I think what they may have meant here was no tower contact during the END GAME, which seems much more reasonable.

[Chris is me]

EricH: Do you know how many times a non inspected team has attempted to participate in a match at an FRC event?

Honestly, I have never, ever, ever seen any team that failed inspection attempt to play a match. I've also never seen a team that didn't pass inspection by midday Friday.

I think you're being a bit overly alarmist.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

EricH: Do you know how many times a non inspected team has attempted to participate in a match at an FRC event?

Honestly, I have never, ever, ever seen any team that failed inspection attempt to play a match. I've also never seen a team that didn't pass inspection by midday Friday.

I think you're being a bit overly alarmist.

Chris, what is the difference between a TEAM and a ROBOT? Right, the team is the people, the robot is what the people build.

Non-inspected teams play all the time. Non-inspected robots have not. (Though I do know of a case where a team added material after inspection and didn't get reinspected. We found out when they did their eliminations inspection.) How else do you think a team that never took the field with their robot got into the top 8 at an event last year? If they hadn't showed up with a human player, they would not have had that ranking.

I've seen teams that didn't pass by midday Friday, too. Two at the same event, both doing rework to pass inspection.

In short, if a team whose robot has not passed inspection goes to the field and participates in a match, with or without their robot, their entire alliance gets red cards. That's what the rule says. That situation has happened before, but not been penalized other than a 3v2 during the match. <T03> penalizes the entire alliance with a red card.

[KevinGoneNuts]

Dude team 100 is awesome. just sayin'

See you all at SAC and SVR!

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by EricH

In short, if a team whose robot has not passed inspection goes to the field and participates in a match, with or without their robot, their entire alliance gets red cards. That's what the rule says. That situation has happened before, but not been penalized other than a 3v2 during the match. <T03> penalizes the entire alliance with a red card.

So the only thing that has to change is the alliance not letting their HP show up and try to get ranking points.

I see zero cause for alarm as this step is absolutely trivial.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

So the only thing that has to change is the alliance not letting their HP show up and try to get ranking points.

I see zero cause for alarm as this step is absolutely trivial.

It's not clear enough. There may be a lot of teams that get red cards because they figured "no change". If it were clear, even in a blue box, that teams who didn't show up wouldn't trigger the alliance red card, there would be zero red cards from it. Problem is, it's not clear enough.

I also think that the punishment doesn't fit the crime, but that's a whole other debate.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

So the only thing that has to change is the alliance not letting their HP show up and try to get ranking points.

I see zero cause for alarm as this step is absolutely trivial.

There's still the potential for significant trouble. A representative for the team in question might easily say "Yes, we've been inspected, we're just fixing the robot." He might even be right, and the robot has indeed been inspected. But he might not know that the robot has not passed inspection, and the "fixing" might be required because of something that the inspection found not to be in compliance with the rules.

An alliance can still check to see whether or not any given robot has passed inspection. It's not that hard to find an authoritative answer. But it's not "absolutely trivial".

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

So the only thing that has to change is the alliance not letting their HP show up and try to get ranking points.

I see zero cause for alarm as this step is absolutely trivial.

This is trivial, but I think the problem will be getting re-inspected. There is a fine line between quick fixes and quick fixes that warrant a need for re-inspection. I think the problem will be that some teams will make modifications and need to be re-inspected, but neglect to do so.

[Jessica Boucher]

Careful, once you're red-carded once, everyone thinks it's hilarious to red-card you every time they see you after that. Like at your own wedding.

[skistunts1]

Just to make it clear, Team 100 has no intention of getting ANY red cards, let alone an amount that would be near a limit if there were one. The only reason we posted the question was because a team member was curious about it and we didn't see any harm in posing the question.