Team leader needs help!!!!!

[HarveyAce]

I am the team leader for 3329, and ive got a few questions for anyone who will answer. We began last year with only four people and a mentor. We only two of those stuck through and about 5 more joined in time for competition. after competition, oly three of us remained. this year (i am one of the originals), was chosen to be team captain, and we now have well over twenty people. The problem is, only a handful of those actually care about what is going on. many rarely show up for meetings, and when they do, they just goof off and get no wok done at all. I've tried everything from asking nicely to shoving graph paper and a pencil in everyones hand and telling them to get drawing and that we are low on time. As a matter of fact, wednesday was the first time anything was done, and it was simple brainstorming. Me and my mentor had the team divide up into subgroups to work on specific components of the robot. today was the beginning of our chassis building process. i super worried that all of the research i and a few others have done concerning mechanisms and strategies is going to waste on deaf ears who don't take the trouble to understand the pros and cons of systems they simply think would be "cool to have", but in reality aren't practical to what we want to accomplish. I have avidly been looking at what successful teams have done in the past both on the field and structurally. How can i get them motivated to work? we have so little time left and i feel like it is going to be up to myself and only four other people and our mentors that do all the work and everyone else just tags on...

[Karibou]

First off: are your meetings consistent every week? I would assume so, but you never know. If they're just kind of sporadic, there's your problem.

Second, I'd suggest setting a requirement for the number of hours spent working. Say that starting next week, you must put in X hours at robotics in order to stay on the team. Call a mandatory meeting and give them a reality check, too.

Make sure that if they show up, you have things for them to do. Explain to them why what they're doing is important. People seem to be a lot more motivated to work when they know what they're making or doing.

Finally...rely on those four people and your mentors to do the main work, and assume that's all your team is. If you set your realistic expectations low, you won't be disappointed if more than those few people show up.

[Jeffy]

"idle" team members has always been a problem for us.
This year, we tried a few new things.
1. Each kid finds a group they want to be a part of (arm, claw, programming, PR, image, ect.) and sticks to it.
2. Each group has a specified leader and it is known by all groups who their leader is.

Have all the groups set goals and hold them accountable to the goals. But, avoid micromanaging them, test out a few ways to check in on their goals, and be sure to give them time to do the work the right way. If your like me, you tend to hover over people and try and help them if there is a mere pebble on there is a mere pebble on their path. This is bad.

Work with your mentor if you need help, but most of all don't do everything yourself.

I would advise that the group leaders are your motivated ones. For our team, each group is required to have atleast:
1 mentor
1 Veteran
2 schools represented (we are a 5 school team)
1 student proficient in Inventor

I have found, that no matter what it may appear like, if a kid shows up, they ussualy want to help. Often times kids don't know how to help, so when they are in groups, its much easier to manage, and everyone has a chance to help.

It may turn out that the group leaders do the bulk of the work, and the rest of group watches and learns. This is absolutley fine and normal, as long as everyone is learning.

I tried to include the basics that we installed since last year, and are working great for us. It's kinda jumbled, but I hope it helps.

[HarveyAce]

Our meetings are very consistent, everyone can come any day of the week unless our mentor says no because he cant be there, and the overall tam meetings are wednesday and Thursday.
I've got 1 person in the programming, 1 person in the strategy, and I pretty much manage everything else because the rest of the stuff (pretty much the rest of the design), because the rest of the dedicated people aren't experienced and are still learning (aka brand new freshmen that joined right before kickoff). We have three mentors, the head mentor is my engineering teacher at the high school, one is from lockheed martin, and another is from the TRF here on the sub-base. they are great assets and are doing the best they possibly can to make sure things get done. i think that one problem is that the head mentor believes that EVERYONE should have a vote on what goes on the robot, which seriously injures the time to make descisions, and he wants to test like every single idea that we get, but we don't have that kind of time. our chassis isn't even assembled for cryin out loud . i think that we need to have everyone contribute to brainstorming, yes, but leave it up to the group leaders to make the final say in what is implemented, because we can see the big picture where everyone else isn't putting in the effort. we are also the only school within a large distance, in fact the only one in camden county, georgia. im trying to work with what we learned last year and what other teams have learned what works and doesn't work, but it goes in one ear and out the other when i say that other more experienced team have warned against or put up the pros and cons of a system . i just care alot about this team and i am hoping to get us somewhere this year, but we just aren't havng such a great start...

[Karibou]

Originally Posted by HarveyAce

i think that one problem is that the head mentor believes that EVERYONE should have a vote on what goes on the robot, which seriously injures the time to make descisions, and he wants to test like every single idea that we get, but we don't have that kind of time. our chassis isn't even assembled for cryin out loud . i think that we need to have everyone contribute to brainstorming, yes, but leave it up to the group leaders to make the final say in what is implemented, because we can see the big picture where everyone else isn't putting in the effort.

That's got a lot of truth to it. Apparently a few years before I joined my team, EVERYTHING was voted on, from how many pins to buy to what kind of robot to build. Alumni tell me that it was terrible, and that we're so much more organized now. What we do now is pretty much exactly what you described. Have you told your mentor your view on this?

I can see where he's coming from in the sense that kids like to feel that they should have a say in the robot decisions, but reality says otherwise: factory workers don't get to decide what the new Chevy Volt looks like, even though they're the ones making the car.

[DtD]

I would strongly advise against the voting thing. The way I see it, if a good idea appears, it will naturally make its way onto the robot since someone or some people strongly support it.

Also, for anyone that is concerned, I stripped down our internal website to only the countdown: http://pathogenstudios.com/frccountdown/

If anyone wants to host their own (and change the times to their own regionals) feel free to download: http://pathogenstudios.com/frccountd...ccountdown.zip . Times are halfway down through Modules/firstCountdown.php Customize the design as you want, I just ask the copyright notice stays in tact.

EDIT: Also, overstructuring can be bad too. Our team (2334) last year had a system where the formal (voted on, of course) team leaders had to fill out goal sheets for the day and give frequent updates on where they wanted to be at the end of the week. Oh, and you had to have your team members discuss them of course. And after, you had to announce them to the whole team and if someone disagreed with them you had to redo them. Having the goals in general is a very good thing, but the overstructuring costs you precious build time.

[Hawiian Cadder]

this has been a problem on our team for a while, in the past few years we have solved the problem thusly.

the problem is too much "advertising" if you tell everyone in the school that they should join robotics and make it sound like a very cool thing, then many people will join for the wrong reason. our team has the understanding that we dont really recruit, this is not a viable solution for many small rookie teams, but it is what works for us. the result is a core group of 8-14, and another 14-18 who come a little less often but are still serious about the robot.

[Seathan93]

Since our team got "re-vitalized" last year we had this problem. We still have this problem. Back when I was at another school in Freshman/Sophmore year, I was a little bit a part of the problem.

1389 has 25 members, 15 of which show up mostly regularly. 20 pay the "membership donation." Our school day ends at 2:10. By 4 half of those 15 members have left. By 7, which is when we've been ending this week, 5 remain.

We're very relaxed about it. If there's only 5 of us, then we work that much harder. No time requirements; people have many things they're involved with here.

1. Each kid finds a group they want to be a part of (arm, claw, programming, PR, image, ect.) and sticks to it.
2. Each group has a specified leader and it is known by all groups who their leader is.

As a leader with only one year of experience (not including right now)...and as I've said, being part of the problem myself, I've found that this is extremely accurate and helpful.

Also...Delegate, delegate, delegate. Once the groups are up, have the people in charge of the groups delegating tasks to group members.

Unfortunately, you have to be a project manager before an engineer as the leader. You know you're doing your job right if everything is getting done effectively and you're the only one with nothing to do. It's a bit less fun than playing with power tools, but it's your job as the leader.

[big1boom]

Originally Posted by Seathan93

Unfortunately, you have to be a project manager before an engineer as the leader. You know you're doing your job right if everything is getting done effectively and you're the only one with nothing to do. It's a bit less fun than playing with power tools, but it's your job as the leader.

Sounds like what I am doing this season.

To get your team to perform, ORGANIZE. My team went over our project plan with a CATERPILLAR project manager and laid out every task from now until robot ship. This project plan is checked and updated at every meeting. Another way we organize is by having progress reports at the end of each meeting. We do these through our website so everyone can access them. Basically the progress reports go over what happened during the meeting, and what has to happen next to stay on track with our project plan. The progress reports help quantify the amount of work that happened, and also make is so that we don't rely on a core group of people to continue progress.

With the organized approach, it is very easy to see exactly what needs to be done, and when it needs to be done by. This puts a sense of urgency into everyone so that they work harder.


As for design, Titan Robotics does a every-student-has-a-vote type system. The discussions are lead by one of the captains (me this year), and we go through everything from strategy to basic design. We then break up into prototyping units to work on ideas and finalize the robot. This system may not work for everyone though, since we have a ridiculous amount of time at the beginning of build season. (our school has Intersession week, which is a week between semesters where students take a fun "class". It means we can meet from 8AM-9:30PM every day for the first week.)

[114Klaatu0x72]

As a former team captain, all I can say is get your team known to your school, youth group, church, whatever you are involved in, and people will come. If your school has a club day, bringing out the robot is the best way to get people to join. If your making an elevator system this year, come next school year, people will be very interested in something that rises up to 11 feet.

The second thing I can say is, welcome everyone as much as you can, but make them "earn" their right to be there. By that, I mean it's better to have some people who just idle around, watch what your doing, don't do all that much if anything, and cut after an hour or so but are actually interested in robotics, than people who stay the whole time and only seem to serve as a distraction and are just there because there parents want them involved or something or they still insist that FIRST == battlebots. It's a lot better to have a few freshmen holding you back but involving them as much as you can, than to have experienced people just doing all of the work. Unless you are making important parts with some larger machines, if you have them, involve them in everything you are doing. Show them how to put together a tough box, let them cut some metal even if they mess up and it doesn't end up on the robot, show them how the "box on wheels" you made last year works, show them you don't need to know a whole lot about math to know how levers or gears work and that they are capable of doing those crucial engineering concepts, take out some rulers and calipers and show them how to measure parts, let them make a few extruded aluminium parts in cad and teach them how to constrain to parts into a simple frame, have them bolt together a few things, go have them drive during a practice match, show them that programming *cough* labview *cough* doesn't need to be some cryptic low level thing of mystery, hook up a compressor and show them that all its just air going through a tube, if they can't do one thing put them on something else, make them a part of the team, even if you can't stand them at first and you really really really REALLY have no hope in them, and I guarantee you that they will be around the next day, the next week, the next month, and the next year, and even if you only have a few more people show up the following year, as long as your team keeps at it, it will grow and expand and build up to be a wonderful thing.

Thirdly and finally, a little organization and finalizing you decisions goes so much longer than you can imagine. Keep you meeting dates consistent, have a whiteboard with a list of things to do, put back all of you tools and parts, decide on doing something rather then the "best thing", and what once may seem like a moment by moment activity becomes a something structured, the times when you know you have things to do and people to do things but you can't exactly say what to do exactly become almost automatic, people knowing what needs to be done and them simply doing, or at least trying to, do it. When it gets down to it, it's not about your money, or your facilities, you team size, your mentors, or your legacy, but simply having just enough skill and just enough managing and plenty of delegating to get what you what done and being proud of what you did, however you do you are doing great, and if you take some of that experience and apply it to the next year, you'll do even better.

Peace, and good luck.

[Bomberofdoom]

Originally Posted by big1boom

Sounds like what I am doing this season.

To get your team to perform, ORGANIZE. My team went over our project plan with a CATERPILLAR project manager and laid out every task from now until robot ship. This project plan is checked and updated at every meeting. Another way we organize is by having progress reports at the end of each meeting. We do these through our website so everyone can access them. Basically the progress reports go over what happened during the meeting, and what has to happen next to stay on track with our project plan. The progress reports help quantify the amount of work that happened, and also make is so that we don't rely on a core group of people to continue progress.

With the organized approach, it is very easy to see exactly what needs to be done, and when it needs to be done by. This puts a sense of urgency into everyone so that they work harder.

Right on!
In off-season, Build a template for each year, what are the general type of missions that are usually common when building each year's robots, define the process of each mission.
When the game is revealed, after brainstorming ideas and choosing a strategy for the robot, start defining specific missions, an estimate of how long they take, what missions are required to be completed beforehand, and how many members are needed to accomplish the task. These will help give a very clear picture of what is planned and what is needed to fit the planned timelines of the schedule.
This kind of thing is called a gantt chart. Using MS Project will help you build a dynamic gantt chart that you can input the progress and really see how the project is advancing, if the current progress will allow the team to reach a finished robot by the time of the robot shipment, and what is slowing that progress if not.

In addition to the gantt chart, having each team member write a progress report can really help each member and the sub-teams leaders and the team leader to understand what everyone understands of the current situation of the team's progress and what might be wrong if progress is slow.

HarveyAce,
As for now, I think you should talk with your mentors and teachers and define what each sub-team needs to do in the next week and let them define what each team member needs to do to accomplish the sub-team's missions. Try as much as you can to understand if each team member, including the less active ones, really understands what his missions are and what he needs to accomplish. Don't be too harsh, but try to explain to the team, after they have been defined those missions, that their roles are vital to completing the robot, otherwise there might not be finished robot by the time of the robot shipment. Once again, not too harshly.

[HarveyAce]

Thanks guys. This means a lot. I'm hoping to have a meeting with each group individually and talk to them about what we need to get done, assign group leaders, and such. I want us to have at least two weeks or a week and a half to practice with the robot before we ship it off. Thank you everyone for your help!

[big1boom]

Originally Posted by Bomberofdoom

Right on!
This kind of thing is called a gantt chart. Using MS Project will help you build a dynamic gantt chart that you can input the progress and really see how the project is advancing, if the current progress will allow the team to reach a finished robot by the time of the robot shipment, and what is slowing that progress if not.

I guess we aren't the only team the uses Microsoft Project.

[Mr_I]

HarveyAce,
You have two very big and very different challenges; they must be handled with totally different solutions, and completely independent of each other. These challenges are: This Month (i.e., the 2011 Build Season) and Next Year. Each is its own issues, and you can't confuse them.

For This Month, you need to take a realistic view of what can be done with the resources in hand (people / talent, materials and cash), strip your goals down to just what is feasible, get commitments from your people, and then delegate tasks (with deadlines!) Get a mentor to stand with you at your next "mandatory, all hands on deck" meeting, and ask each student to commit to being on the team and solidly working until 5:00pm on February 22nd. Those who do commit (get it in writing!) will be the ones to count on; for those who don't commit, thank them for their interest but politely ask them to leave. Please don't take offense, but two weeks into Build isn't the right time to tackle the motivational issues. You won't be able to build a robot and turn lackluster students around in four weeks. This "come to Jesus" meeting should only take 1/2 hour, and will tell you which of the 20-something members you can count on.
You won't get all 20; if you're lucky, you will have about 10 students, but in the worst case, you'll repeat last year's membership. Then decide what you can do. Our thought guiding process, which we got from 365 / Team Moe, is "feasibility vs. ability": What can you build vs. will it help you in the game? (Sure, a six-jointed arm might win the game, but can you build it? And while you know how to kick soccer balls, in this game it's useless.) Then block out all distractions about next year and get through this year! (The AndyMark drive train can be constructed in one evening by 2 people; I'd recommend ordering and installing additional sprockets and chains to power more than just the middle wheels, however.)

For Next Year, you need to start early (September), and get people psyched to be part of a "team". There are lots of good suggestions in the posts above (attend an off-season competition, for example); Chief Delphi is as always a font of useful advice. Team 811 has had it's ups and downs, and we are very strong right now, but I know where you are. If you'd like, I can offer many ideas for both you and your head mentor. Drop me a private message and we can talk.

Good luck, my friend ... to quote Men in Black, when Will Smith asked Tommy Lee Jones, if it was worth it, "Oh, yeah, it's worth it ... if you're strong enough!"

[klmx30302]

Originally Posted by Karibou

Second, I'd suggest setting a requirement for the number of hours spent working. Say that starting next week, you must put in X hours at robotics in order to stay on the team. Call a mandatory meeting and give them a reality check, too.

Our team used to have a mandatory 6 hrs a week during build season. Now its more like 12-15 hours (I get 30 hrs in a week) and we had to write an essay saying what we wanted to get done during build season, 5 people dropped because of the essay, another 2 dropped because of the hours. By the way we are a team of ~60 students and 10-15 mentors.