Go to Post Why does 1114 have to be good at everything? ;) - Justin Montois [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2011, 20:49
lcoreyl's Avatar
lcoreyl lcoreyl is offline
WittyTitleGen can't link to library
AKA: Milner
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 201
lcoreyl has much to be proud oflcoreyl has much to be proud oflcoreyl has much to be proud oflcoreyl has much to be proud oflcoreyl has much to be proud oflcoreyl has much to be proud oflcoreyl has much to be proud oflcoreyl has much to be proud oflcoreyl has much to be proud of
What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

<sarcasm>1361 has decided we are going straight defense. Our criterion? We successfully defended the smoke detector from a vicious attck by the magic smoke contained within a PWM cable.</sarcasm>
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-02-2011, 21:29
Mike Schreiber's Avatar
Mike Schreiber Mike Schreiber is offline
Registered User
FRC #0067 (The HOT Team)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 479
Mike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeMike Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

Why would you ever have to defend if you can outscore them?

Straight defense bots screw over not only themselves, and their alliance by not being able to score. They reduce the overall score of the match which kills the ranking for the team their against too...

There is no such thing as a "good" defender, especially in this game where you can only block their path and not mess with them in the zone (without penalty).
__________________
Mike Schreiber

Kettering University ('09-'13) University of Michigan ('14-'18?)
FLL ('01-'02), FRC Team 27 ('06-'09), Team 397 ('10), Team 3450/314 ('11), Team 67 ('14-'??)
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2011, 03:28
Koko Ed's Avatar
Koko Ed Koko Ed is offline
Serial Volunteer
AKA: Ed Patterson
FRC #0191 (X-Cats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Rochester,NY
Posts: 22,938
Koko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond reputeKoko Ed has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

Just remember good defense is not just racing around the field and smashing into opposing bots til they fall over. You just want to delay them more or less. Outright stopping them could lead to the chance of getting penalties from pinning. A thorough understanding of the rules is paramount.
__________________
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2011, 05:31
MagiChau's Avatar
MagiChau MagiChau is offline
Registered User
AKA: Michael Chau
FRC #0085 (B.O.B. (Built on Brains))
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Zeeland, Michigan
Posts: 875
MagiChau is just really niceMagiChau is just really niceMagiChau is just really niceMagiChau is just really nice
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

Rating defense is a bit opinionated. But, I would agree with using the criteria of how "annoying" they look to the other teams with their attempts to block the path to score. Perhaps count every time they block someone from reaching a part of the field they need to. If you got a good sense of time, count how long they delay a team in one part of the match.

Last edited by MagiChau : 11-02-2011 at 05:34.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2011, 07:35
jwfoss jwfoss is offline
Chasing Elegant Simplicity
AKA: Justin Foss
FRC #0558 (Elm City Robo Squad)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 591
jwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond reputejwfoss has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

Never discount a solid defensive bot, in some matches they are they key to winning...

In my opinion there are three things you need for good defence:
-Great Drive Team
Driver training and coaching will be a major key to a "defence only" strategy, the ability to have the foresight to antisipate the other driver and get in their way. This does not mean running around the field hitting everyone and driving like a crazy person, but calculated position to best effectively stop or at least slow down the scoring. Hint: Do not Pin... Pester.
-Clear Understanding of the Rules
You must know the rules inside and out to avoid penalties. This year pay attention to the End Game rules.
-Solid Drivetrain
You need to be quick enough to get in the way, but strong enough to push people around if needed.
__________________
2003-2006 | FRC 0176 | Aces High - Student
2007-2010 | FRC 0229 | Division by Zero - Mentor in Training
2011-2013 | FRC 2168 | Aluminum Falcons - Mechanical Mentor
2013-20xx | FRC 0558 | Elm City Robo Squad - Mechanical Mentor
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2011, 08:05
Jared Russell's Avatar
Jared Russell Jared Russell is offline
Taking a year (mostly) off
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs), FRC #0341 (Miss Daisy)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,078
Jared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond reputeJared Russell has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

A good defender does not take (unnecessary) penalties.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2011, 08:26
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,684
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

Usually the regional has 1-3 standout defenders, a whole bunch (5) that keep away from penalties and kind of get in the way but don't really do anything, and the rest are never worth it.

Picking for defense is something I've usually done only when they can bring something else to the table. In 2010, 1124 at WPI had one of the few functioning autonomous modes in the second round which we used to advance a ball forward. 173 at Connecticut had a reliable 3 ball autonomous mode which kept the front zone dry for the first bit of the match.

Also, functioning swerve drives as defenders are awesome. Just sayin'.
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
...2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
---
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
...2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design
...2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
...2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
...2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 Minnesota 10,000 Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2011, 12:54
Peter Matteson's Avatar
Peter Matteson Peter Matteson is offline
Ambitious but rubbish!
FRC #0177 (Bobcat Robotics)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: South Windsor, CT
Posts: 1,652
Peter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond reputePeter Matteson has a reputation beyond repute
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

A good defender prevents more points being scored by their opponent than they would have scored playing outright offense creating a net positive score differential.

A good defender will recieve no penalties.

A good defender will be a reliable robot driven by a smart drive team.

A good defender will not get in the way of their alliance's offensive robots.
__________________
2011 Championship Finalists/Archimedes Division Championships w/ 2016 & 781
2010 Championship Winners/Newton Division Champions
Thank-you 294 & 67

2009 Newton Division Champions w/ 1507 & 121
2008 Archimedes Division Champions w/ 1124 & 1024
2007 Championship Winners/Newton Division Champions w/190, 987 & 177 The Wall of Maroon
2006 Galileo Division Champions w/ 1126 & 201
www.bobcatrobotics.org
"If you can't do it with brains, it won't be done with hours." - Clarence "Kelly" Johnson
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2011, 18:36
gyroscopeRaptor's Avatar
gyroscopeRaptor gyroscopeRaptor is offline
Registered ConfUser
AKA: Mark McGivern
FRC #3633 (Catalyst)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Albert Lea, MN / Troy, NY
Posts: 360
gyroscopeRaptor has a spectacular aura aboutgyroscopeRaptor has a spectacular aura about
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

A robot that can stop the equivalent, throughout a match, of more than one robot (Example: always blocking one, holding a couple at once for a small portion of the match) without interfering the offense, will be my criteria for a good defender. If the robot cannot score otherwise, then they are burdening their team.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2011, 22:04
voltage5's Avatar
voltage5 voltage5 is offline
Volt
FRC #1006 (Fast Eddie)
Team Role: CAD
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Port Perry
Posts: 15
voltage5 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: What criteria do you use for "good" defender?

Yeah, I agree. A good defender needs to avoid being pushed around. The main defensive strategy in this year's game will be to block opponents scoring pegs and minibot deployment (if that's legal), not simply drive around crashing into other bots. I think defending is a valid strategy in this year's game as long as you have a good minibot. Just my 2 cents.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi