Use of Arduino to control a Spike Relay

[docdavies]

We are trying to resurrect our 2010 Breakaway robot using an Arduino Mega. I've gotten the motor control in hand (solenoid PWM), and have worked out how to run the 12 V Festo values. Our Jag's and Victors are behaving themselves (although I haven't gotten everything running at once so don't know if I'm going to over load the Arduino outputs). Was playing around today with Spike Relays, they hold a lot of potential. I wrote the code to run the compressor and read the pneumatic switch and was about to run it when that little voice in my head said, "You'd better look into the amount of current that will be sourced into the PWM control port from an Arduino pin". Could not find anything on line about how much it takes to activate the Spike. Anyone know? Also, hooked the Spike power input to 12 V battery, got nice orange light, hooked white line to 5V power supply, green for go, 5V to red line red for reverse. Wonderful. So put meter in circuit and got 65 mA flowing. Way to much for Arduino. But thought I'd measure resistance and do Ohms law to check. Measure resistance from white to black...infinite???? Obviously I'm missing something. Can anyone help. Basically my question is, can the Arduino directly control the Spike using a DIO line. Thanks....

[Ether]

Originally Posted by docdavies

"You'd better look into the amount of current that will be sourced into the PWM control port from an Arduino pin".

Just to be clear: The Spike's input is not PWM.

Basically my question is, can the Arduino directly control the Spike using a DIO line. Thanks....

I don't know about Arduino specifically, but these two links might be of help:

http://www.ifirobotics.com/forum/vie...bb0ac07 5720b

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=47835

[docdavies]

I do understand that the Spike is not powered by a PWM signal...we just use a PWM cable and so generically refer to it as the "PWM input to the Spike"..... I realize that the black is ground, white is 5V (TTL) for forward and the red is 5V (TTL) for reverse.

I checked the references you included. My impression is that it should work, but there was one mention that the 5V source might not be able to source enough power. I'm not familiar with the 2004 EDU RC. Can you tell me how much the TTL output lines could source?

[Ether]

I don't know if this is authoritative, but it purports to be from the IFI Tech Support Site Administrator.

The same author claimed that the EDURC IO could drive the Spike directly.

[docdavies]

Ether,

Thanks for your input. I have to admit I'm in a quandary. I've also seen info that says even the cRIO-DSC DIO output is no more than 2 mA. But I can't get anything that gives me that rock solid feeling. An Arduino can be had for $35-60 but I'm hesitant to just give it a shot.

I'm going to get a hold of a NI tech support guy I used to interface with when I was in industry. I'll put the burden of getting the info on him.

I do hope you're right since it makes the whole replacement thing much simpler.

If anyone else picks any info, I'd love to hear it!!!!!

Doc

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by docdavies

Ether,

Thanks for your input. I have to admit I'm in a quandary. I've also seen info that says even the cRIO-DSC DIO output is no more than 2 mA. But I can't get anything that gives me that rock solid feeling.
Doc

Doc,
The cRio does not drive the relays direct. That is what the digital sidecar is for. The drive circuitry and current is part of that interface.

[Gdeaver]

There are several low side or high side switch chips on the market. Check ST Micro or Infineon. You can get up to 8 outputs in a package. This is what they are designed to do. I do not know of any company making a break out or shield for them unfortunately. Note that some Arduino's are 3.3 volt devices and not all driver chips can operate at lower voltages.

[docdavies]

Al,

Can you tell me then how much the relay lines from the digital side car can source? My searches have led to mentions of from 2-100 mA. And that would be from the DSC side not the cRIO.

G,

I'll look into those components....but I am but a poor biochemist, with little electronics training... Looking at those specs and little symbols gives me a tremendous head ache.....

I never thought such a simple question could be so complicated!

[Jetweb]

Originally Posted by docdavies

Al,

Can you tell me then how much the relay lines from the digital side car can source? My searches have led to mentions of from 2-100 mA. And that would be from the DSC side not the cRIO.

G,

I'll look into those components....but I am but a poor biochemist, with little electronics training... Looking at those specs and little symbols gives me a tremendous head ache.....

I never thought such a simple question could be so complicated!

According to this from the first website the relay outputs from the DSC can source 7.5mA each.

To add to that in the past I have ran a spike connected directly to 2 DIO lines on a microchip part which could only source 20mA per line and it worked fine (back when i just assumed an optoisolator would not pull 65mA)

Theres seems to be something simple were missing here that hopefully someone can explain

[docdavies]

Ok, I'm almost crazy enough to laugh and cry at the same time. In the following reference:

http://www.vexrobotics.com/217-0220.html

They say, "It (the spike relay) can not be connected to an R/C hobby type receiver".

Then lower in the specs they say, ---- "Control Signal:Hi: 3V min @ 4mA; Lo: open or ground."

Surely we have one electronics expert in the forums that can wade through this mass of info and render an expert opinion??

[Ether]

Originally Posted by docdavies

Ok, I'm almost crazy enough to laugh and cry at the same time. In the following reference:

http://www.vexrobotics.com/217-0220.html

They say, "It (the spike relay) can not be connected to an R/C hobby type receiver".

Then lower in the specs they say, ---- "Control Signal:Hi: 3V min @ 4mA; Lo: open or ground."

Given the context, when they say "It (the spike relay) can not be connected to an R/C hobby type receiver" I believe they are simply emphasizing that the Spike input is not PWM.

http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/752

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Doc,
I checked with an NI rep on this issue and although the individual outputs can handle higher current, NI recommends users stay with the 2 ma spec for source current.
The IFI spec of 4 ma and 3 volts sounds just about right as minimums. Typically this will be higher current when energized from a 5 volt driver. Typically I would expect 5-10ma depending on the series resistor that IFI chose in this design.
I didn't have a chance to check the higher current spec earlier but it relates to the maximum input current of an opto-isolator. Anything above that current will destroy the LED inside.
According to TI, the chip maker, the relay output driver of the DSC sinks or sources up to 16ma at 5 volts. The designers of the DSC included a 680 ohm resistor in series with the output to limit the current in case of a dead short.
I agree with Ether on the hobby controller PWM outputs.

[gcschmit]

Originally Posted by docdavies

Basically my question is, can the Arduino directly control the Spike using a DIO line. Thanks....

I've controlled a Spike relay with an Arduino and it worked fine. I didn't switch the relay a lot since it was only used as a cut-down mechanism for a near-space balloon.

[docdavies]

Geoff,

So I'm assuming you did not use a limiting resistor. You just connected the Arduino pin and set it high?

Doc

[gcschmit]

I just connected the Arduino digital line and ground line and set the digital line high. (I was only interested in switching the relay in one direction.)