Official 2012 Motors Models and Specs Thread

[sanddrag]

I wanted to create this thread as the place to discuss all the different motor possibilities for 2012 including the new motors in the kit of parts, and the plethora of motors available to us through the junkyards participating in the auto recycler network. Near us, the local Pick Your Part participates. That would be rather interesting if we could go get whatever motor from whatever car.

What make and model of car has the most powerful motor in its doors, seats, wipers, and windows?

[Ether]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

the plethora of motors available to us through the junkyards participating in the auto recycler network.

Does anyone know if there is a link to an online PDF of the ARA PDV ?

[PAR_WIG1350]

Wiper motors and window motors will not be as strong as seat and door motors.

The vex motors and throttle motors are, uh, interesting? I'm most excited about the PG71. Hopefully it will be more reliable than the banebots 775/planetary. Also, the pg71 planetary can be bought separately, as can the adapter plate for 500 sized motors and the 1/2 inch shaft adapter.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

I'm most excited about the PG71. Hopefully it will be more reliable than the banebots 775/planetary.

The PG71 and the RS775 are not even in the same league. The 775 is 271 watts max, and the PG71 is 21 watts max.

[Timz3082]

Originally Posted by Ether

The PG71 and the RS775 are not even in the same league. The 775 is 271 watts max, and the PG71 is 21 watts max.

That is with the gearbox, without it is 180 W, as a reference the 775 is about 100w more! not 250...Still a big deference between a motor of the exact same size/look!

[Bruceb]

Specs on the PG75 from AM
Performance Specs:
Voltage: 12 volt DC
No Load RPM: 84 rpm

No Load Current: 1.3 amps

Maximum Power: 130 Watts

Stall Torque: 6.8 ft-lb (at 11.6 volts)

Stall Current: 11.3 amps (at 11.6 volts)

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Bruceb

Specs on the PG75 from AM
Performance Specs:
Voltage: 12 volt DC
No Load RPM: 84 rpm

No Load Current: 1.3 amps

Maximum Power: 130 Watts

Stall Torque: 6.8 ft-lb (at 11.6 volts)

Stall Current: 11.3 amps (at 11.6 volts)

Read posts 4, 5, 7, and 8 of this thread:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=99390

[Andy Baker]

Originally Posted by Bruceb

Specs on the PG75 from AM
Performance Specs:
Voltage: 12 volt DC
No Load RPM: 84 rpm

No Load Current: 1.3 amps

Maximum Power: 130 Watts

Stall Torque: 6.8 ft-lb (at 11.6 volts)

Stall Current: 11.3 amps (at 11.6 volts)

These numbers, posted by me on the AM website two days ago, are not correct. They have been updated to much more realistic, and larger numbers. We at AndyMark are changing these numbers a bit after some further testing this weekend. Sorry about this change. Please check our PG71 web page for any further updated information.

Here is more to the story.

When I was updating the web page for this motor on Friday, getting it ready for Saturday's kickoff, I saw that the stall torque was listed at 11 amps. This is information we got from the manufacturer. So, I called Mark, who was out at Manchester for kickoff to see what was up with this. He created and interpreted the performance numbers a few weeks ago, and listed the stall torque at 11 amps. We both thought about this some more and agreed that was waaaaay too low. He got home today and did a bench test that repeatedly performed at these numbers below. This test was ran with a 12.8 volt battery providing voltage directly to the motor. The stall torque is 23 ft-lbf, and the max current reading is 28.6 amps. We believe this translates to approximately 350 watts as the max power for the motor.

Tested at 12.8 volts
23 ft-lbf max torque at stall
28.6 amps pulled at stall
Estimated 350 watts of power

Here is Mark's setup. He had a force gauge measuring an arm's pull at exactly 1 foot away from the motor. The force gauge showed 23 lbs of force and the amp meter showed 28.6 amps. It was a simple setup, and we ran it about 10 times. The numbers were consistent. These numbers make much better sense to me compared to the "11 amp stall torque" numbers I posted on Saturday.

Again, sorry for these erroneous numbers yesterday, and please check out the PG71 website for future updates.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

Tested at 12.8 volts
23 ft-lbf max torque at stall
28.6 amps pulled at stall
Estimated 350 watts of power

The numbers don't seem to add up. Using the 84 rpm free speed from the AM web site:

At 12 volts:

stall torque = (12/12.8)*23 = 21.56 ft-lbf

Assuming max output power occurs at half stall torque and half free speed:

half stall torque = 21.56/2 = 10.78 ft-lbf

half free speed = 84/2 = 42 rpm

max watts = 42*10.78*0.142 = 64.3 watts

At 12.8 volts:

free speed = (12.8/12)*84 = 89.6 rpm

Assuming max output power occurs at half stall torque and half free speed:

half free speed = 89.6/2 = 44.8 rpm

half stall torque = 23/2 = 11.5 ft-lbf

max watts = 44.8*11.5*0.142 = 73.2 watts

[theprgramerdude]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

These numbers, posted by me on the AM website two days ago, are not correct. They have been updated to much more realistic, and larger numbers. We at AndyMark are changing these numbers a bit after some further testing this weekend. Sorry about this change. Please check our PG71 web page for any further updated information.

Here is more to the story.

When I was updating the web page for this motor on Friday, getting it ready for Saturday's kickoff, I saw that the stall torque was listed at 11 amps. This is information we got from the manufacturer. So, I called Mark, who was out at Manchester for kickoff to see what was up with this. He created and interpreted the performance numbers a few weeks ago, and listed the stall torque at 11 amps. We both thought about this some more and agreed that was waaaaay too low. He got home today and did a bench test that repeatedly performed at these numbers below. This test was ran with a 12.8 volt battery providing voltage directly to the motor. The stall torque is 23 ft-lbf, and the max current reading is 28.6 amps. We believe this translates to approximately 350 watts as the max power for the motor.

Tested at 12.8 volts
23 ft-lbf max torque at stall
28.6 amps pulled at stall
Estimated 350 watts of power

Here is Mark's setup. He had a force gauge measuring an arm's pull at exactly 1 foot away from the motor. The force gauge showed 23 lbs of force and the amp meter showed 28.6 amps. It was a simple setup, and we ran it about 10 times. The numbers were consistent. These numbers make much better sense to me compared to the "11 amp stall torque" numbers I posted on Saturday.

Again, sorry for these erroneous numbers yesterday, and please check out the PG71 website for future updates.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker

I don't know if I'm doing this right (actually, I'm pretty sure I am), but if you input 28.6 Amps at 12.8 Volts, that's equivalent to 366 watts of electrical power being put into the system.

350 watts of output power translates to >90% efficiency for a 12V motor, something that is ridiculously high.

Or, maybe I'm reading this wrong, and you're simply stating that it can pull about 350 watts of power, and not the output power... I'm confusing myself.

In the retest, was the torque due to the arms weight accounted for?

[sanddrag]

Regarding the Automotive Recycler's Association motor deal, I found this press release: http://arav3.timberlakepublishing.co...p?Display=1476

My question is, can we simply buy and legally use any motor from a car rather than obtaining it through this route? If not,I think it's dumb that a piece of paper from a junkyard is the difference between a motor being legal and not.

[Tom Line]

I can't believe we'd be allowed to use any motor at all. I'm looking forward to more info too. There has to be a reasonable limitation on what can be supplied.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

My question is, can we simply buy and legally use any motor from a car rather than obtaining it through this route? If not,I think it's dumb that a piece of paper from a junkyard is the difference between a motor being legal and not.

It makes sense to me....we don't want people using the power window pump motor out of a 1950 lincoln, for example.

[Ether]

See notes embedded in red:

Originally Posted by theprgramerdude

I don't know if I'm doing this right (actually, I'm pretty sure I am), but if you input 28.6 Amps at 12.8 Volts, that's equivalent to 366 watts of electrical power being put into the system. Yes, that's how you would calculate the electrical power into the motor at stall. There is zero power output at stall.

350 watts of output power translates to >90% efficiency for a 12V motor, something that is ridiculously high. There is no mechanical power output at stall. You can't divide the 350 by the 366.

Or, maybe I'm reading this wrong, and you're simply stating that it can pull about 350 watts of power, and not the output power. Power rating should be the mechanical output power. See this post for how it's calculated.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Timz3082

That is with the gearbox, without it is 180 W

Could you please post a link to your source for this data. Thank you.