Procedural v Object Oriented Programming

[mathking]

From a technical sense, Java does make multiple copies of an object. But in practice this doesn't mean what most people think of as making multiple copies of an object. An object is intantiated in Java, the object references a memory location at which the data is stored. If you create another object and set it equal to the first object (such as when you pass it while calling a method) you do create a copy with the same data. But since that data is the the memory location where the "real" data that defines the object is located, when you change the copy you are changing the original.

OK, that was too confusing. Consider this:
Cat A = new Cat("Kitty");
Cat B = A;
B.changeName("Spike");
System.out.println(A.getName());
/* This code prints out 'Spike' because both A and B are referencing (you can think of it as 'pointing at' if this helps) the same location in memory. */

As for decisions on what language and style to use, as several commenters have posted, you should be asking yourself what is best for the team? And not just for this year but for the future. And you might also consider that using the language with which you are less comfortable will expand your own programming talents.

[gblake]

To some of the other respondents - David's original question has very, very little to do with unimportant aspects of language differences, and almost everything to do with organizing teams.

David - While the programming topic might be interesting. It is also unimportant.

You shouldn't continue to let trivial differences between languages distract you. It is evident from the opening paragraph of your OP that you realize the real subject of your question, so deal with that subject.

Work with the team mentors to agree on an approach that puts service before self.

Leaders serve.

Blake

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Now this shows up as my first post

Welcome to ChiefDelphi!

[sjspry]

Object Oriented programming is still procedural (but with OBJECTS!). Was this something about the choice of language instead? If it is (like I think it is), do what others have said and just pick the one most people agree on.

Basically, all languages are fundamentally the same (OK, except things like Erlang and Haskell, but we'll ignore those...) so the only real difference is available libraries and syntax. I personally choose Java because of the huge standard library (which is, sadly, diminished in the microedition) and because I hate how the WPILib has things named in C++ (I loathe the Microsoft coding style).

Anyway, you could pretty easily learn Java. Especially with NetBeans and the Javadocs. If you like to use pointers, though, you'll probably beat your head against your desk sometimes...

[synth3tk]

If you were the only programmer, or you only had two student programmers, then yes, I'd suggest explaining to the mentor why you chose that language, and stick with it, while teaching the other student at the same time.

But with 8? You pretty much need to stop worrying about what YOU think would be best for only YOU, and start thinking about what would be best for the TEAM. As Don pointed out, building the robot is only the tool used to build the future leaders, innovators, and businesspeople of the world.

By the way, one way to convince your mentor to use C++, is to show that you're willing to teach the others how to use that language. And before you say anything (I've read your posts regarding teammates), don't underestimate your teammates. You've still got 5 weeks. That's plenty of time.

[Mike Soukup]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

By the way, one way to convince your mentor to use C++, is to show that you're willing to teach the others how to use that language. And before you say anything (I've read your posts regarding teammates), don't underestimate your teammates. You've still got 5 weeks. That's plenty of time.

This is some great advice. As someone who strives to be a leader on your team, it's your responsibility to help the rest of the students. Next spring, dedicate a few hours each week to teaching C++ or Java to all the new students. Then when January comes around, you'll be able to program the robot in that language. But until then you have to do whatever allows the rest of the software students to follow along and get some benefit out of coming to the meetings.

As a side note, our team starts off each school year with 5-10 new software students on average who have absolutely no programming experience. We use the spring semester to teach them enough to be able to follow along when we start programming after kickoff. Hopefully by the end of the season they'll know enough to contribute in a meaningful way. Then when they return the next season they're ready to go from the start and write their own code. It's taken many years to get to this point, but it's far better than a few mentors with a couple of students doing all the work.

[EricVanWyk]

Originally Posted by gblake

To some of the other respondents - David's original question has very, very little to do with unimportant aspects of language differences, and almost everything to do with organizing teams.

Quoted for Truth.


When I mentor a programming team, we discuss the various language options, their strengths, their weaknesses, and the team member's experience with each language. There is usually one or two zealots for one of the options, and usually they don't really know why. After a bit I tell the team "I know more than 13 languages and actively use 5 of them. The trick is identifying the right tool for the job." If that doesn't cure the zealotry, I tell them about the time that I insisted on using C++ when I should have used MATLAB, and that it took me 6 times as much code to write the same functions, and that in the end I got bit by a numerical rounding issue that MATLAB handles automatically.

And David, I know that my posts to you don't pull punches... If I were your team mentor you would not be the student lead. You really need to improve your team member skills before you can work on your team lead skills.

[jaysongdahl]

Originally Posted by JewishDan18

They're both Turing complete, so difference in functionality shouldn't be an issue

In my experience doing both, the code written is so similar that I made the decision to use Java simply because I like Netbeans better than Windriver (especially since I use Ubuntu).

Hahahahah. Maybe then it would be better to write an assembler for this then?

http://esolangs.org/wiki/Bitwise_Cyclic_Tag