Pneumatic Air Tanks

[virajpatel]

How many pneumatic ari tanks are we allowed on the robot this yr?

[Tytus Gerrish]

before anybody says RTM. i just want to say how awesome the high volume tank is. The high volume tank is 7/4 as awesome as the previous tanks.

[EricH]

Actually... I'm not going to say read the manual.

I'm going to say, Watch Q&A, because someone asked there already due to it not being specified in the Manual.

[Jon Stratis]

Actually, I think it's specified just fine in the manual. It's part of the pneumatic system, right? Thus, according to:

<R66> In addition to the items included in the KOP, pneumatic system items specifically permitted on 2011 FRC ROBOTS include the following items. All included items must be “off the shelf” COTS pneumatic devices rated by their manufacturers for working pressure of at least 125psi and burst pressure of 250psi, and used in their original, unaltered condition (except as required for assembly with other components).

Additional air tanks are not listed under this rule. You received exactly 1 2"x12" accumulator in the KoP. Thus, you are allowed to use that single accumulator, no more. Compare this to the 2010 manual. The same rule exists (<R72>), with identical wording (except for the year). Under the rule, section A clearly states how many air storage tanks you can have in addition to the KoP provided 2 tanks. It seems pretty clear to me that this was specifically removed by the GDC this year in order to limit you to a single storage tank as provided in the KoP.

[EricH]

IIRC, FIRST Choice had the older (smaller) tanks, and is regarded as an extension of the KOP. As such, you could use those tanks if you wanted to.

So, somebody asked Q&A for specifics. We'll see if they give any response other than "".

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by EricH

IIRC, FIRST Choice had the older (smaller) tanks, and is regarded as an extension of the KOP. As such, you could use those tanks if you wanted to.

So, somebody asked Q&A for specifics. We'll see if they give any response other than "".

Be very careful with that assumption...

KIT OF PARTS (KOP) – the collection of items listed in the 2011 Kit of Parts Checklist provided on the FIRST website at http://www.usfirst.org/frc/competitionmanual.

The items on FIRST Choice are not listed in the KOP checklist. Thus, per this definition from the rulebook, they are not considered KOP items. That would apply to the air storage tanks, cost accounting for anything obtained from FIRST Choice, the legality of the "Pneumatic Muscle" from FIRST Choice, etc... I know there's been discussion on here about that definition, I hope someone has posted a question about it by this point.

[EricH]

That particular definition comes from the GDC by way of Bill Miller on Bill's Blog.

It's quite confusing on a number of avenues, like you mentioned.

That's why you wait for Q&A. (I'd also be interested in: where do Bill's Blog and Q&A rate in relation to each other and the Updates?)

[Tytus Gerrish]

unless you have to worry about having enough air to actuate some gigantic 2x24 cylnder. take all accumulators you got 'n' strap 'em on. Worst case you have to take them off and use the one 12" accumulator.

[Matt C]

Hmm . . . . no specific storage tank restrictions other than 125 psi operating and 250 psi burst?



Rated at extremely high pressure . . carbon fiber . . 88 ci . . hmm

[Tytus Gerrish]

well then i would just strap a dive Cylinder to the bot and be done with it.

[Matt C]

Originally Posted by Tytus Gerrish

well then i would just strap a dive Cylinder to the bot and be done with it.

Why not, I was just looking for a more . . light weight solution.

[Dkt01]

See Team Update #2. It addresses some of the pneumatics rules.

[JesseK]

The Q&A seems to [url=http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16123]confirm that there is no restriction on quantity or type of storage tank. Just be sure to consider the engineering tradeoffs of actually having such a high volume of stored onboard, considering that technically the volume must be filled by the 1.03 cfm compressor even in the pits.

There are tradeoffs, they're just somewhat subtle.

[Matt C]

Originally Posted by JesseK

The Q&A seems to [url=http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16123]confirm that there is no restriction on quantity or type of storage tank. Just be sure to consider the engineering tradeoffs of actually having such a high volume of stored onboard, considering that technically the volume must be filled by the 1.03 cfm compressor even in the pits.

There are tradeoffs, they're just somewhat subtle.

I love the clippard tanks, but I also remember back in 2000 when the pneumatics first came out, and you had to run to the pit station to get a fresh tank after every match (that thing was HUGE though). There would be nothing preventing a team from constantly refilling tanks equipped with valves, and swapping them to quickly recharge the robot's pneumatics system. (Assuming everything is being done by the ONE compressor).

I've seen a few tanks out there that weigh a bit less, and take up a bit less room than the clippard tanks. That's more what I'm looking at.

I KNOW at least one team is going to have a crazy pneumatics setup this year.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Matt C

I love the clippard tanks, but I also remember back in 2000 when the pneumatics first came out, and you had to run to the pit station to get a fresh tank after every match (that thing was HUGE though). There would be nothing preventing a team from constantly refilling tanks equipped with valves, and swapping them to quickly recharge the robot's pneumatics system. (Assuming everything is being done by the ONE compressor).

Interesting concept; I hadn't thought of that.