How many teams do you think will just do the mini-bot

[Macdaddy549]

Our teams guess is there is know way you can win against 2 teams with good mini bots. If your playing a team that is known to have a great mini-bot and they deploy it successfully it's almost impossible to beat them. 30 points for the winning mini is to much to over come. In my opinion as in Aim High, every bot that makes it up should get x amount of points.

Food for thought.

[JesseK]

Personally, if I knew the opposing alliance had massive minibot capabilities, I would stock up on tubes in the home zone for about the first 90 seconds -- just acquire, traverse, drop, and repeat. 1 robot's responsibility would be putting up the tubes in the last 30 seconds or so, and it'd be the robot that is BEST at it (or 2 robots would hang if only 1 of the 3 had minibot capabilities). It would basically boil down to whether or not the strategy could make up 35 points in 30 seconds. It takes about 6-12 tubes (from memory...) to make up 35 points depending on the robot's capability. Depending on the Alliance composition, the differential could be even less if Ubertubes were hung and 2 minibots deployed instead of 1. Since we're talking about tube-hanging versus minibots, I think it's safe to say that 2 ubertubes will be hung and 1 minibot will climb on the tube-centric Alliance. Thus, the point differential to make up will be even less -- somewhere between 23 and 27 points. This is doable within 5 tubes if they're all on the top in 1 logo + 1 extra where 2 are on ubertubes.

So minibot-only will probably suffice for early Regional Qualification matches since tube scores will probably be low, but I don't foresee it being a viable longer term primary strategy to win an overall FIRST Regional in the later weeks. It's always good to have in a clutch situation though.

/hijack Hmm. How many tubes would it take to make up the 10 points for last place in the minibot race? i.e. If a team knew they would probably get last place, and it takes 20 seconds to traverse, line up, and deploy, in what situations could the team make up 11 points on the rack if 2-3 tubes were already available in the scoring zone?

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by JesseK

/hijack Hmm. How many tubes would it take to make up the 10 points for last place in the minibot race? i.e. If a team knew they would probably get last place, and it takes 20 seconds to traverse, line up, and deploy, in what situations could the team make up 11 points on the rack if 2-3 tubes were already available in the scoring zone?

realistically 3 on the middle rack in a logo. that would be 2(3) x logo bonus = 12 points. No ubertube in this situation

If we are talking about a team strategy, what would a team have to do versus two quick minibots? Let's say the two best minibots ended up on the same alliance and went consistently 1 and 2. That would put the minibots up 50-25 if memory serves. What would a team have to do to make up the deficit realistically?

[earlybird]

Originally Posted by wilsonmw04

If we are talking about a team strategy, what would a team have to do versus two quick minibots? Let's say the two best minibots ended up on the same alliance and went consistently 1 and 2. That would put the minibots up 50-25 if memory serves. What would a team have to do to make up the deficit realistically?

You would be one point shy if you made a logo on the top row with one ubertube. (2(3) + 1(6)) X 2 = 24. Some people would want to score on the top row anyways because if you are scoring on the middle row you are blocking your driver's view. Unrealistically how ever if you had 2 logos on the top row with all 3 ubertubes that would be worth 60 points!

[Jon Stratis]

minibot scoring: 30, 20, 15, 10. So, if one team gets 1st and 2nd, that's 50 points against 25. While a 25 point deficit looks pretty large, it can be made up pretty easily. If the opposing team can score two ubertubes on the top row, that's 12 points - half the deficit. Score a tube over each of those ubertubes, and that's another 12 points - suddenly it's a 1-point game.

Add to that possible defensive strategies - how difficult would it be to deny one of those awesome minibots access to the tower? You can block their robot from getting there before the end game.

Having great minibots does help the team tremendously. Scoring 50 bonus points (versus 25 on the other team) does give you an advantage... but if you do so to the exclusion of other aspects of the game, you'll lose. Robots designed well will be able to consistently place ubertubes during autonomous, and be able to place a number of other tubes (likely even completing a logo) throughout the match.

Take a robot that can place an ubertube and complete a logo on the top row - 6 for the ubertube, 6 for the tube placed over the ubertube, 3+3 for the other tubes, and another 12 for the logo bonus. That's a total of 30 points. Add even 4th place for the minibot, and that team scores 40 points - more than the team that spent all their efforts on the minibot and ignored scoring on the pegs.

Successful robots this year will be well rounded. They'll be capable of significantly impacting the score in every stage of the game - from scoring ubertubers to scoring regular tubes/blocking opponents from scoring to deploying a minibot. Take the time to think through how you'll cause an impact through the entire game life cycle, and you'll be successful. Going straight to the tower after autonomous to ensure you're in position and ready to deploy in the end game won't get you anywhere.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

Going straight to the tower after autonomous to ensure you're in position and ready to deploy in the end game won't get you anywhere.

...especially since you can still get pushed around...

I don't see 'minibot only' as a valid strategy.

A logo on each of the top rows in your alliance with three ubertubes (total) is:

18 points for ubertubes.
18 points for tubes overtop of ubertubes (doubled to 36 with logo bonus)
9 points for tubes not overtop of ubertubes (doubled to 18 with logo bonus)

= 62 points. Add in 3rd and 4th place minibots and you've got 87 points... Which means that the minibot-only alliance has 37 points to make up...

...and the assumption that the minibot only teams will have the best minibots every game, and will successfully deploy them every game, is likely a poor one.

-----------

My prediction is that the best robots this year will score in autonomous, score throughout most of the game, and then deploy fast, reliable minibots -- and will consistently beat minibot-only alliances.

[dtengineering]

Doing one thing well is better than doing several things poorly.

So having the best mini-bot will get you some games on Saturday afternoon, particularly at early-season regionals.

But you'll still lose to the teams that have a really good mini-bot and really good scoring, even if you play careful D on them.

Jason

P.S. I'd be really interested to know if you could cram one of the square game pieces down over top of one of the poles. Apparently the inner spacing of the square is about 12", and the pole has a top of 12" diameter, and I can't see anything saying that you can't take a game piece and drop it down over the opponent's pole. That would kind of obliterate their mini-bot attack before it started.

[Andrew Zeller]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

P.S. I'd be really interested to know if you could cram one of the square game pieces down over top of one of the poles. Apparently the inner spacing of the square is about 12", and the pole has a top of 12" diameter, and I can't see anything saying that you can't take a game piece and drop it down over the opponent's pole. That would kind of obliterate their mini-bot attack before it started.

Very good point-I will bring this to my teams attention

[Chris is me]

If two opposing robots only did mini bots, I'd throw tubes. Halves the time it takes to get more tubes, so we can score twice as fast with less risk of tube theft compared to a normal match.

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by earlybird

You would be one point shy if you made a logo on the top row with one ubertube. (2(3) + 1(6)) X 2 = 24. Some people would want to score on the top row anyways because if you are scoring on the middle row you are blocking your driver's view. Unrealistically how ever if you had 2 logos on the top row with all 3 ubertubes that would be worth 60 points!

Acutally its 30 points

24 points for teleops score
6 point bonus for autonomous

so with one autonomous cap and 3 caps you've neutralized the winning mini bot.
if you then get a mini bot that can simply reach the top thats +15 pts for your alliance.

You alone have limited the lead of 2 winning minibots to 5 points and your alliance partners havent done anything.

Where you have two partners who can cap, place mini bots, or play d. They only have one. Oh and the only way they can score is by capping.
If your minibot takes second place you are beating them by 5.

So 1 autonomous cap + 3 teleop caps + 1 working minibot = roughly two minibot bots

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

P.S. I'd be really interested to know if you could cram one of the square game pieces down over top of one of the poles. Apparently the inner spacing of the square is about 12", and the pole has a top of 12" diameter, and I can't see anything saying that you can't take a game piece and drop it down over the opponent's pole. That would kind of obliterate their mini-bot attack before it started.

I brought up earlier, you can see the thread, I like the idea, many others don't and you will see the debate regarding the legality:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=88602

[voltage5]

Yeah, I think in order to win this game you need a robot that can score tubes and deploy a good minibot. A minibot only team would score a lot of "easy" points at the end but you lose a lot of potential points throughout the rest of the game. I am pretty sure you can't put a game piece over the pole to prevent the opposing minibot from climbing.

<G23> Contact (via ROBOT or GAME PIECE) with the opposing ALLIANCES TOWERS is prohibited. Violation: RED CARD

[earlybird]

Originally Posted by lineskier

Acutally its 30 points

24 points for teleops score
6 point bonus for autonomous

Oh I was referring to both top rows, should have made that clear. 2 complete Logos + all 3 Ubertubes.

[Dr Theta]

Originally Posted by earlybird

Unrealistically how ever if you had 2 logos on the top row with all 3 ubertubes that would be worth 60 points!

Top row with three ubertubes is worth 72 points. 3*3*2 (logo with no ubertubes) + 3*6*2 (logo with 3 ubertubes) + 3*6 (autonomous score for ubertubes) = 18+36+18= 72

[Dustin Shadbolt]

When we designed our robot, we just focused on scoring and playing the main game. While it's a good idea to have the minibot, it won't make or break a regional. I doubt we will see everyone roll out with a minibot. Our main strategy is to score and to keep scoring. We will develop one and have the ability to deploy but it won't be our main focus. If you develop a robot just for the end game, you are asking for trouble :\.