Teacher Designs

[CidTeach]

For the students reading this i have one thing to add;
Mentors, whether or not engineers, teachers etc., have a lot on their mind. So take it easy when they get frazzled.
When my colleague and I hear 17 different robot designs, ideas and details we sit one on one or by group and sift through the ideas. At times, the two mentors take over the conversation and students sit idle listening. There is a reason for this:
1. We tend to foresee interferences
2. We have a lot more experience with the technical issues associated with systems
3. We love to K.I.S.S.<----keep what you're doing as simple and to the point as possible and within the means of your facilities.

Other than that, step aside and talk one on one and show that you have concerns. It helps if you try to develop your ideas/designs instead of blurting out a wiley coyote/ACME idea.

Hope this helps.

[Jon Stratis]

I'll chime in here and, like everyone else, tell you to talk with them. This isn't a terribly uncommon problem in FIRST - after all, every year I've been a mentor I've gone home from kickoff and sketched out several robot designs. it's cool fun, interesting stuff to do. Despite that, however, I've never brought one of those sketches in for the team.

We had a similar issue in 2008 (our second year) - the mentors were doing too much, and the students not enough. The students brought the issue up, talked about it, and we worked with them to improve things that year. I'll tell you right off - we didn't improve much that year. It's hard to make a radical change in the middle of the season. But we did work with the students to layout the groundwork for improving. We came to an understanding that, in order for the team to be successful, roles on the team had to be clearly defined. We needed clear expectations of what our jobs were. And that summer, we worked out that document. 2009 was better than 2008, although it was still largely mentor-driven. 2010 was even better still. This year, we're almost entirely student designed and student driven. As mentors, we walk around and offer thoughts on discussions, but we aren't leading the talks. We aren't leading the experiments or the prototypes. We're simply helping the students where needed, and when they ask for it.

So please, open the dialog with your teachers/mentors. If it helps, write out the issues in an anonymous letter for them. But above all, keep things constructive. You don't want to push such dedicated people away - you want to talk about what makes FIRST so great, and how you want your team to evolve into something that gives you an even better understanding of the design process. Let them know that you appreciate the time and effort they've put in, and that you love their dedication - but they need to find a way to include the students and allow you to share in the process. The last thing you want is for this to turn into a finger pointing game, or to sound whiny and immature. You have legitimate complaints, and if you approach them with the right attitude, you can get a lot accomplished.

[dtengineering]

Well, regardless of how you might feel about your mentors' involvement in the design process, just remember that without their involvement you don't have a team. They are also under pressure to keep your build program on schedule. Depending on the schedule for your team's build, you may NEED to have a design ready to go. NOW.

It is also important for students to know that you can't just show up on the first day of build and design a robot. In my experience new students have been able to contribute ideas to the design process, but only my most experienced students (three to five years' experience) can really visualize the entire machine from gears through to grippers based on sketches and drawings.

If you want to have more impact on your team's design process, I'd suggest getting as involved as possible in this year's build, learning what works and what doesn't, and taking notes of your ideas. In the off season, learn to use Inventor, and re-build a virtual robot that addresses the issues you saw. Talk to your teachers about how your design would work.

When you start next year's build you'll have more experience with design, you'll have Inventor to help you express your ideas, and your teachers will know that you are serious about wanting to contribute ideas.

Sometimes the reason people "don't get to have a say in anything" is because they don't have very many useful things to say. If you and your teammates learn during build, and keep at it over the off-season, you'll likely have many useful things to say next year and will be surprised at the impact that you will have on the design.

Jason

[Alienvin]

I understand your concerns. Can I ask whether or not the students on your team are bringing ideas and designs to the table during the design process? That's where I believe student's should begin to show their teacher's and mentor's that they are committed. No designs = No Robots so sometimes I feel that the adults need to step up and being the process for their students. But for the past 6 years and now in our 7th year, My philosophy is 100% student built. We do not send any of our parts out to be machined. Everything is machined in house. Sometimes students struggle in manufacturing the components but on the 2nd or 3rd time they get it right with the correct guidance.

[Chris is me]

Talk to the teachers. Ask them why did they design it and whether you had an opportunity for input. Maybe there was opportunity you just didn't realize.

[GGCO]

Be realistic here. If the students all are very technically advanced, then feel free to suggest designs. However, if students aren't that advanced and are just saying unrealistic designs, be aware that your mentors will probably be building the majority of this robot.