Update #3

[gbrettmiller]

Note the change to <G07>:

Items other than the ROBOTS and the GAME PIECES UBERTUBES shall not be placed on the FIELD prior to or during the MATCH.

This seems to leave open the possibility that you could stage a LOGO PIECE on your ROBOT instead of an UBERTUBE during PRE-MATCH. I can see this being useful if your AUTONOMOUS program is not functioning, to get you in good position for the start of TELEOPS.

I guess the question then is how many LOGO PIECES are actually available for each match? Just enough to equip each FEEDER STATION with 3 sets in accordance with <G10>, or enough to meet that requirement plus more? I've been assuming the former, but don't have any justification for that assumption.

Thoughts?

[dlavery]

Originally Posted by gbrettmiller

This seems to leave open the possibility that you could stage a LOGO PIECE on your ROBOT instead of an UBERTUBE during PRE-MATCH.

No, it doesn't. <G06> is still in effect. The modified language just fixes a logic error in the old phrasing that could have been interpreted to mean that game pieces other than ubertubes might not be allowed on the field during the match.



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[Bob Holmstrom]

Have magnets have disappeared from the list of approved components?

Bob

[NorviewsVeteran]

Originally Posted by Bob Holmstrom

Have magnets have disappeared from the list of approved components?

Bob

No, it and one other item rolled over to page 4.

[Bob Steele]

i agree with you...

G06 states that EACH ROBOT MUST be in contact with one UBERTUBE so you have no choice... even if your robot HAS no autonomous it must be in contact with an ubertube and contact with two tubes might be considered possession... although I am not sure of that..

I can't really recall any other game that allowed you to indiscriminately put game pieces into play at the beginning of the match unless specifically stated in the rules.

If you follow the same logic, there is no prohibition of having a player hang game pieces on your rack before the game either... it doesn't say you can't... lol

( I am being facetious here.... )
Clearly the spirit of the game is ubertubes in contact and putting game pieces into play at teleop...

One interesting strategy for a robot with no autonomous would be to place their robot next to the opposing team's feeder zone and put the uber tube mostly in the feeder zone so that it blocks a robot from coming in ... without, of course, having the robot itself in the zone which would be a penalty...

[gbrettmiller]

Originally Posted by dlavery

No, it doesn't. <G06> is still in effect. The modified language just fixes a logic error in the old phrasing that could have been interpreted to mean that game pieces other than ubertubes might not be allowed on the field during the match.

<G06> only states that each ROBOT must be in contact with one UBERTUBE, it does not prohibit a ROBOT being in possession of a LOGO PIECE at the start of the match.

I had a similar initial reaction to the change. Then I though that if that were the intent of the change, it would have made more sense to remove the "or during the MATCH" phrase instead of changing UBERTUBE to GAME PIECES, especially since this is in the Pre-Match section of the rules.

[EHaskins]

Originally Posted by gbrettmiller

<G06> only states that each ROBOT must be in contact with one UBERTUBE, it does not prohibit a ROBOT being in possession of a LOGO PIECE at the start of the match.

I had a similar initial reaction to the change. Then I though that if that were the intent of the change, it would have made more sense to remove the "or during the MATCH" phrase instead of changing UBERTUBE to GAME PIECES, especially since this is in the Pre-Match section of the rules.

Technically, maybe, but you would receive a penalty for being in control of more than one game piece. Sorry, don't have the rule number handy.

[alectronic]

Originally Posted by gbrettmiller

<G06> only states that each ROBOT must be in contact with one UBERTUBE, it does not prohibit a ROBOT being in possession of a LOGO PIECE at the start of the match.

I had a similar initial reaction to the change. Then I though that if that were the intent of the change, it would have made more sense to remove the "or during the MATCH" phrase instead of changing UBERTUBE to GAME PIECES, especially since this is in the Pre-Match section of the rules.

I am going to trust dave on this one, since he is on the game design committee. Reason being: You would be herding / possessing multiple game pieces.
(See <G34>)

[gbrettmiller]

Would <G34> really come into play here? Does "contact" equal "control"?

Here's the scenario I was considering:

Your AUTONOMOUS program is not working.
You place the UBERTUBE in contact with the back bumper (closest to CENTER LINE) and place a LOGO PIECE in your GAME PIECE manipulator.
When TELEOPS begins, you move your ROBOT forward to HANG the LOGO PIECE.

In this situation, is the ROBOT really in "control" of the UBERTUBE? The ROBOT is stationary, thus not HERDING (as I understand the term), nor is it in POSSESSION. When it starts moving, it immediately moves away from the UBERTUBE.

Not trying to nitpick, just trying to understand. (Isn't it amazing how the same words can have such different meanings for different people?)

[EricH]

<G34> would not come into play. However, the reason for that is much simpler than contact on the back bumper...

<G10> states that each feeder station starts with 3 sets of logo pieces. Put one on a robot, and <G10> is violated. Someone comes out before the match, retrieves the logo piece from your robot, and takes it to the station that's missing one.

[gbrettmiller]

Originally Posted by EricH

<G34> would not come into play. However, the reason for that is much simpler than contact on the back bumper...

<G10> states that each feeder station starts with 3 sets of logo pieces. Put one on a robot, and <G10> is violated. Someone comes out before the match, retrieves the logo piece from your robot, and takes it to the station that's missing one.

<G10> states that each station must have 3 sets. As I mentioned in my original question, your interpretation of <G10> assumes that there are only 12 sets of logo pieces, with no extras beyond what is required by <G10>. I don't recall seeing that specified in the rules.

If it is the case that there are only 12 sets of LOGO PIECES available in a MATCH and the intent of the game is that the ROBOTS cannot have access to the LOGO PIECES until TELEOPS begins, then I understand and concede to your intepretation of the changein Update 3.

[dodar]

If our team was gonna use magnetic ball bearings, would they consider those magnets or ball bearings?

[Tom Line]

Ok - so at roughly 3.5 W per servo...... we're now in a race to see how many servos we can add to a minibot......

I sense a rule clarification coming

http://www.ranchbots.com/club/papers...20Rotation.pdf

[Aren_Hill]

I sense R47 applies to those servo's as well, and making them continous rotation involves modifying internals vs the allowed output shaft tweaks, so work on your ratcheting mechanisms.

[Chris is me]

Tetrix sells "continuous rotation servos" so.. yeah.