Q&A "Framer Perimeter Clarification" -- Access Denied?

[Ken Streeter]

I have been trying to read through the official FIRST Forums Q&A, and am having trouble accessing a link provided by the GDC, and am wondering if this is a problem for everybody, or just a personal problem for me?

The page on which the "access denied" link is provided is http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16328 in the following text by the GDC: "This question has been addressed in this thread."

The destination of the link is http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16270 which I have been unable to access despite trying in both Firefox and IE under three different conditions: when not logged in, when logged in under my personal forum account, and when logged in under the team's official 2011FRC1519 account.

Is there anybody else out there that can get to the destination page? Is anybody else having the same trouble? I'd really like to be able to see the thread that the GDC is referencing.

Thanks,
--ken

[DonRotolo]

It's not just you. Same here.

[Ken Streeter]

Hmm. With a little more digging, I found that the problem page (http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16270) is that of another thread, titled "Mechanisms Extending Past Frame Perimeter" created by 2011FRC2630.

The "Section 4 - The Robot" page (http://forums.usfirst.org/forumdisplay.php?f=1481) indicates that there have been 603 views of the problem page, but I still can't get to it...

Sigh...

[GaryVoshol]

Ken, I think the post is gone. I recall reading an answer that confirmed the ROBOT could extend through the BUMPER ZONE, but not the BUMPERS. It would seem the "see this answer" would reference that post, but I can't find it now.

EDIT: Here's another link that was there, but now has "access denied"; perhaps it was the post that I was thinking of: http://forums.usfirst.org/showpost.p...25&postcount=3

[Ken Streeter]

Gary's comment that he thought he had read the post but that it is now gone led me to take another approach... Due to the magic of the Google Cache, I have now been able to view the contents of the thread that now has access denied. I wonder if the GDC is rethinking their answer to this, or if it is just a forums bug?

A Google Search for "Mechanisms Extending Past Frame Perimeter" will provide an option to view the cached page:

Old 01-14-2011, 04:05 PM
2011FRC2630
Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2
Mechanisms Extending Past Frame Perimeter
Hello,

Though it is hinted throughout the manual that robot mechanisms may extend beyond the frame perimeter, for example an arm picking up a logo piece from the floor, it is not specifically allowed (as far as we can tell).

In fact, per our understanding of the rules, it is perhaps even illegal.

here is the reasoning:

1. It seems that the FRAME PERIMETER is not defined in reference to the starting configuration, but in reference to the robot, implying that at any moment wrapping a string around a robot would represent it's current FRAME PERIMETER.
2. Bumper rules dictate that the FRAME PERIMETER must have full bumper coverage in the BUMPER ZONE.
3. Any mechanism, say an arm, going for an object on the ground would enter the BUMPER ZONE.
4. once it's in the BUMPER ZONE, the FRAME PERIMETER now envelops the arm as well (wrap a string around the robot, it also wraps around the arm)
5. the arm + chassis would need to conform to the bumper rules (i.e. HAVE bumpers, maintain bumper gaps, etc...)
6. since the last point is impossible to conform to, especially with the ban on articulated or moving bumpers, picking up tube from the floor seems to be impossible to do legally.

Could you verify this, or make clear where the flaw in the above reasoning is?

Thank you very much.
-Team 2630
2011FRC2630

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Old 01-15-2011, 02:45 PM
2011FRC0562
Junior Member

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2
Smile Mechanisms Extending Past Frame Perimeter
While in PLAYING CONFIGURATION, are MECHANISMS allowed to extend past the FRAME PERIMETER and into the planes of the BUMPER ZONE (i.e. touch the ground).

Wishing to get a clarification on this particular issue, not expressly prohibited or endorsed.
2011FRC0562

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Old Yesterday, 11:02 AM
GDC
Game Design Committee

Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,487
Default Re: Mechanisms Extending Past Frame Perimeter
The FRAME PERIMETER is defined in the context of the fixed, unarticulated elements of the ROBOT (see Rule ). Mechanisms can extend horizontally beyond the FRAME PERIMETER and vertically through the BUMPER ZONE (but not the BUMPERS) as long as they do not violate any other constraints (e.g. the 84 inch cylindrical size limit).
GDC

[GaryVoshol]

That's the post that I was thinking of; I joked that they couldn't find a rule number to reference.