Go to Post You know you've overdosed on FIRST when you set your alarm clock to your team # ex: 9:32 - bladetech932 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 20:39
GaryVoshol's Avatar
GaryVoshol GaryVoshol is offline
Cogito ergo arbitro
no team
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Posts: 5,764
GaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond reputeGaryVoshol has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #6

Alex only expanded on what I was talking about. My question on a RED CARD was whether there must be a Red2 that is contacted, or did the contact with Red1 cause the RED CARD?

Either way, this can lead to some distressing strategies.
__________________
(since 2004)
Reply With Quote
  #17   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 21:01
RyanN's Avatar
RyanN RyanN is offline
RyanN
AKA: Ryan Nazaretian
no team
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,128
RyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond reputeRyanN has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #6

Well there goes our "Ahead of Schedule" status. Back to the drawing board with our mini-bot. Too bad because it works perfectly and I just ordered $30 more of limit switches that might as well be thrown out because it seems we're going to be forced into using the stupid heavy NXT brick.

<- Not happy FIRST, not happy at all.
__________________
Taking a break from mentoring for a few years. (Is that allowed?!?)

Controls Mentor
@rnazaretian

Previous teams:
Team Fusion, FRC 364
Garnet Squadron, FRC 4901
Reply With Quote
  #18   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 21:10
SirTasty's Avatar
SirTasty SirTasty is offline
Middle Manager... :-(
AKA: Dolan Murvihill
FRC #2374 (CrusaderBots)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 32
SirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to behold
Re: Team Update #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by rtfgnow View Post
I have a dig deeper challenge.

Same situation, red pushes blue into the zone. Either way blue gets a penalty. Red might get a yellow card.

What if red keeps pushing until blue hits red2? Now does G61 apply? or does blue get the red card.

Gary might be talking about this but I am not sure if thats exactly what he is aiming for.
OR, during the elimination rounds, you pin Blue to the wall for thirty seconds, thus incurring sixty penalties, while you wait for red2 to contact Blue and get blue a red card, thus causing the blue alliance's disqualification and red to win the match by default.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat View Post
Another note: sportsmanship and competition go hand and hand. In any sport, whether it is football or track and field. As the ball is snapped, you pound the guy across you and drive him until he is on his butt. After the whistle blows, you help him on his feet; repeat every down.
Homework? What's homework?
Reply With Quote
  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 21:20
sircedric4's Avatar
sircedric4 sircedric4 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Darren
no team (The SS Prometheus)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Lousiana
Posts: 245
sircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond reputesircedric4 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #6

Hmm, given the concern being raised about having to get a NXT brick to get the robot down, I hope the GDC will allow a small kite string like tether for your minibot. Pulling the robot down would be easy enough, and a string doesn't add any advantage in the race portion.

Right now the rule is you can't violate the 12"x12"x12" volume so a string would be in violation, but if they could make an exception for non-powered tethers it would make it relatively simple to get the robots back down.
Reply With Quote
  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 21:23
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,797
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: Team Update #6

I'm willing to bet there's some kind of electrical solution that reverses the direction of the motors with the depressing of a limit switch that doesn't "unreverse" them once it's lost contact.

But I didn't really think the GDC wanted people implementing flip flops on their robots...
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
Reply With Quote
  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 21:30
EricVanWyk EricVanWyk is offline
Registered User
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,597
EricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond reputeEricVanWyk has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to EricVanWyk
Re: Team Update #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I'm willing to bet there's some kind of electrical solution that reverses the direction of the motors with the depressing of a limit switch that doesn't "unreverse" them once it's lost contact.

But I didn't really think the GDC wanted people implementing flip flops on their robots...
Double Pole Double Throw light switch?
Reply With Quote
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 21:34
apalrd's Avatar
apalrd apalrd is offline
More Torque!
AKA: Andrew Palardy (Most people call me Palardy)
VRC #3333
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Auburn Hills, MI
Posts: 1,347
apalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond reputeapalrd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
I'm willing to bet there's some kind of electrical solution that reverses the direction of the motors with the depressing of a limit switch that doesn't "unreverse" them once it's lost contact.
There are household 4-way light switches which can do this. Because they are commonly mounted in a wall outlet box, and are available at home supply centers, they fit this requirement


I wonder what they would say if you said "I disassembled my 1 motor controller and used the electronics to build a flip-flop"

Edit: Beaten to it.
__________________
Kettering University - Computer Engineering
Kettering Motorsports
Williams International - Commercial Engines - Controls and Accessories
FRC 33 - The Killer Bees - 2009-2012 Student, 2013-2014 Advisor
VEX IQ 3333 - The Bumble Bees - 2014+ Mentor

"Sometimes, the elegant implementation is a function. Not a method. Not a class. Not a framework. Just a function." ~ John Carmack

Last edited by apalrd : 28-01-2011 at 21:35. Reason: beaten to it
Reply With Quote
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 22:00
Chris is me's Avatar
Chris is me Chris is me is offline
no bag, vex only, final destination
AKA: Pinecone
FRC #0228 (GUS Robotics); FRC #2170 (Titanium Tomahawks)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Glastonbury, CT
Posts: 7,797
Chris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond reputeChris is me has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Chris is me
Re: Team Update #6

All you'd need is a D flip flop - the "top" sensing limit switch feeding both the clock and input.
__________________
Mentor / Drive Coach: 228 (2016-?)
--2016 Waterbury SFs (with 3314, 3719), RIDE #2 Seed / Winners (with 1058, 6153), Carver QFs (with 503, 359, 4607)
Mentor / Consultant Person: 2170 (2017-?)
.
College Mentor: 2791 (2010-2015)
-- 2015 TVR Motorola Quality, FLR GM Industrial Design -- 2014 FLR Motorola Quality / SFs (with 341, 4930)
-- 2013 BAE Motorola Quality, WPI Regional #1 Seed / Delphi Excellence in Engineering / Finalists (with 20, 3182)
-- 2012 BAE Imagery / Finalists (with 1519, 885), CT Xerox Creativity / SFs (with 2168, 118)
Student: 1714 (2009) - 2009 MN 10K Lakes Regional Winners (with 2826, 2470)
2791 Build Season Photo Gallery - Look here for mechanism photos My Robotics Blog (Updated April 11 2014)
Reply With Quote
  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 22:31
ratdude747's Avatar
ratdude747 ratdude747 is offline
Official Scorekeeper
AKA: Larry Bolan
no team
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Madison, IN
Posts: 1,065
ratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond reputeratdude747 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #6

the catch is making it work at the correct voltage and current. you would have to use a relay to do that... very doable indeed...

so to do that, you would need an 74LS74 IC (or other d-flip-flop), a resistor or 5v voltage regulator, and a relay.

good thinking chris!
__________________
Dean's List Semi-finalist 2010
1747 Harrison Boiler Robotics 2008-2010, 2783 Engineers of Tomorrow 2011, Event Volunteer 2012-current

DISCLAIMER: Any opinions/comments posted are solely my personal opinion and does not reflect the views/opinions of FIRST, IndianaFIRST, or any other organization.

Last edited by ratdude747 : 28-01-2011 at 22:32. Reason: idiot used cache instead of catch :(
Reply With Quote
  #25   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-01-2011, 22:41
D.Allred's Avatar
D.Allred D.Allred is offline
Registered User
FRC #4451 (Rat Rod Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 210
D.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond reputeD.Allred has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratdude747 View Post
the catch is making it work at the correct voltage and current. you would have to use a relay to do that... very doable indeed...

so to do that, you would need an 74LS74 IC (or other d-flip-flop), a resistor or 5v voltage regulator, and a relay.

good thinking chris!
Get those items added to R92 and you're golden.
Reply With Quote
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-01-2011, 02:07
fox46's Avatar
fox46 fox46 is offline
Registered User
FRC #2013 (Cybergnomes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Posts: 400
fox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond reputefox46 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #6

The new rules are really quite simple if you just consider what their intended purpose is: If you are playing defence and your opponent overpowers you into their scoring zone while on their way to score then you have to GTFO or you get nailed. However, if your opponent is just having their way with you around the field and pinning you in one of their zones for no other apparent reason than to attempt to incurr penalties agaisnt you then they get nailed.

The bottom line is that if your opponent is more powerful than your robot, then you best get out of their way however, they cannot use this advantage to maliciously force penalties upon you. If you find yourself in a no-go zone then you best be doing your darn'dest to get out. If you find your opponent has ended up in your zone, you better give them a chance to leave or just go about your business of scoring or collecting a gamepiece.
__________________
Mentor, Team 2013 Cybergnomes 2010 - 2014, 2016
Mentor, Team 3756 RamFerno 2011 - 2013
Mentor, Team 854 Iron Bears 2005-2007
Founding member, Team 854 Iron Bears 2000-2005

Mech.Eng.+Mgt University of Ontario 2009
B.Ed OCT Trent University 2015
Professional Education and Product Knowledge Consultant - Toyota Canada Inc.
Reply With Quote
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-01-2011, 02:40
SirTasty's Avatar
SirTasty SirTasty is offline
Middle Manager... :-(
AKA: Dolan Murvihill
FRC #2374 (CrusaderBots)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 32
SirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to beholdSirTasty is a splendid one to behold
Re: Team Update #6

I'm quite relieved by this update. We built our robot to be able to "push through" defensive robots, in the hopes that there would be a clarification that robots needed to leave opposing alliance zones immediately upon being pushed in. We finally got that. The <G61> exception is a wonderful bonus for us, far more than we had hoped for, I honestly think it is a little bit excessive. Forcing a robot to waste crucial seconds trying to maneuver out of an alliance zone is enough of a disadvantage. They didn't really need a penalty on top of that, but it works well with our strategy, so I won't be too vocal with my complaints.

I'm with mathking regarding defense. This rules update makes for some very interesting defense strategies, and, of course, some interesting counter-defense strategies. Consider that a robot can block an alliance lane singlehandedly if it's maneuverable enough; that could significantly slow a logo delivery. Also keep in mind that robots coming out of alliance lanes can interfere effectively with the other alliance's scoring.

Keeping this in mind, I can envision a two-robot "pickup crew" scenario: Red1, an offensive robot, goes to pick up a logo piece from its feeder station. Blue1, a defensive robot, tries to block Red1 from leaving by the end of the lane. Red1 moves to the side instead. Blue1 moves to block that side, but Red2, a maneuverable support bot, blocks Blue1 from moving to block - almost like a screen in basketball.

As Red1 leaves the lane from the side, it encounters Blue2, which is approaching the blue scoring rack. Red1 pushes Blue2 hard out of the way, forcing Blue2 to waste precious seconds realigning. Red1 then moves down the field toward the red alliance station. Red2, the defensive bot from earlier, moves to block the blue alliance lane, preventing Blue3, which is at the feeder station, from leaving by the side to interrupt Red1 while it scores.

Offense is defense.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidthefat View Post
Another note: sportsmanship and competition go hand and hand. In any sport, whether it is football or track and field. As the ball is snapped, you pound the guy across you and drive him until he is on his butt. After the whistle blows, you help him on his feet; repeat every down.
Homework? What's homework?
Reply With Quote
  #28   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-01-2011, 02:53
Leav's Avatar
Leav Leav is offline
Spud Gun Division
AKA: Leav Oz-Ari
FRC #3316 (D-Bug)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Technion, Haifa, Israel
Posts: 774
Leav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via ICQ to Leav Send a message via AIM to Leav Send a message via MSN to Leav
Re: Team Update #6

Is everyone agreeing that a RedBot pushing a BlueBot into the RedZone automatically means a penalty for the BlueBot, no matter what?


what if the RedBot just wanted to get to a peg behind BlueBot in order to complete a logo, and intentionally pushed the BlueBot, not in order to have it in the zone, but in order to get to the peg... is that a Yellow Card for RedBot
__________________
"We choose to build robots this season and do the other things; Not because they are easy, but because they are hard."
-Paraphrasing JFK

Participated in FIRST as a student: 2005-2006 (But still learning every season!)
Mentor: 2008 - ? (Team 2630 2008-2011, and Team 3316 since 2013)
Engineer: 2011 - ? (B.Sc. and M.Sc. in Mech. Eng. from the Technion IIT)
FIRST Volunteer - 2007 - ? (MC, FTA, FIRST Aid etc.)
Reply With Quote
  #29   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-01-2011, 03:09
EricH's Avatar
EricH EricH is offline
New year, new team
FRC #1197 (Torbots)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 19,827
EricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond reputeEricH has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Team Update #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leav View Post
Is everyone agreeing that a RedBot pushing a BlueBot into the RedZone automatically means a penalty for the BlueBot, no matter what?
Yep. <G61> exception.

Quote:
what if the RedBot just wanted to get to a peg behind BlueBot in order to complete a logo, and intentionally pushed the BlueBot, not in order to have it in the zone, but in order to get to the peg... is that a Yellow Card for RedBot
Tougher call, left to the ref's judgment. The best that RedBot could hope for would be a BlueBot penalty, and no penalty to RedBot. Depending on the ref, it could be BlueBot penalty, RedBot yellow card.
__________________
Past teams:
2003-2007: FRC0330 BeachBots
2008: FRC1135 Shmoebotics
2012: FRC4046 Schroedinger's Dragons

"Rockets are tricky..."--Elon Musk

Reply With Quote
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-01-2011, 03:24
Leav's Avatar
Leav Leav is offline
Spud Gun Division
AKA: Leav Oz-Ari
FRC #3316 (D-Bug)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Technion, Haifa, Israel
Posts: 774
Leav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond reputeLeav has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via ICQ to Leav Send a message via AIM to Leav Send a message via MSN to Leav
Re: Team Update #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH View Post


Tougher call, left to the ref's judgment. The best that BlueBot could hope for would be a BlueBot penalty, and no penalty to BlueBot. Depending on the ref, it could be BlueBot penalty, BlueBot yellow card.

After thinking about it some more, i'm now sure that it would mean a yellow card for BlueBot, since he must have known that pushing BlueBot into the Redzone would mean a penalty. Thus if he purposely pushed him into the Redzone, regardless of his intent (which was to reach the grid, not to have BlueBot incur a penalty), he must receive a yellow card since he knew his actions would mean a penalty for BlueBot.

If this analysis is correct than it is imbalanced and may indeed be an advantage for BlueBot!

consider:
Bluebot on the edge of the RedZone, zipping up and down the border to block RedBot. RedBot has two options: he can wait for the match to end, or he could try and force his way in. if he forces his way in Bluebot get's a penalty, but RedBot get's a yellow card!
__________________
"We choose to build robots this season and do the other things; Not because they are easy, but because they are hard."
-Paraphrasing JFK

Participated in FIRST as a student: 2005-2006 (But still learning every season!)
Mentor: 2008 - ? (Team 2630 2008-2011, and Team 3316 since 2013)
Engineer: 2011 - ? (B.Sc. and M.Sc. in Mech. Eng. from the Technion IIT)
FIRST Volunteer - 2007 - ? (MC, FTA, FIRST Aid etc.)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:14.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi