Safety Zone on Playing Field

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

Not for an on-board sensor.

Jason

Hmmmm unless you are projecting your sensor in front of you... I think you would be in violation if your sensor "saw" the line..

I guess that would be possible.. I have just never done it...usually straight up and down has worked with ours...

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

In a related "Egregious breaking the rules to gain a strategic advantage" example:

In 2008 (Overdrive), did anyone actually possess an opponent's trackball for an extended period of time to keep them from hurdling at the cost of 1 penalty?

That strategy was discussed, but I dont think anyone actually tried it. There certainly was a risk of a Yellow or Red Card for this egregious behavior.

Hitting an opponent in their zone to break up a Logo is basically the same as intentionality possessing an opponent's trackball in '08. If you are going to intentionality take a penalty, why wait till they have almost completed a Logo? Why don't you just spend the entire match playing D in their zone? It is only 1 penalty in both cases, right?

Strategies like this is the reason the refs have/need the authority to issue cards to discourage any behavior they judge to be out of line (regardless of whether a card is specified in the rules). Break any rule and you can be carded.

I am not a ref but if I was this would be my policy on the matter (and I would make it clear at the driver's meeting):
If your robot is entirely outside of the zone and the opponent is entirely inside their zone there is clearly no legal defense you can play on them. If you then drive into their zone and contact the opposing robot, that is egregious and an automatic Yellow Card.
Too harsh? Remember, a Yellow Card is just a warning, so don't do it again. If it was a mistake, you should not have put yourself in a situation to make that mistake. Next time, stay behind the caution line (it is there to warn you "cross at your own risk").

Perhaps drivers need ask for a clarification of this possible situation at the driver's meeting. I expect all the competition teams in FIRST to read, understand and not intentionally break the rules of the game. I know this expectation will never be met by every competition team but I still expect it.

I believe that the possessing a trackball penalty was tried in Atlanta against FRC1114/FRC217/148 in the quarterfinals in their division (Galileo)... I can't remember what happened.... anyone remember that? I know they went through I don't remember the penalties assessed.. One team held onto the other teams ball for the whole match..and also trapped the 2nd ball against the wall for most of it...

Of course they went on to win the whole thing regardless of this attempted use of the penalty to stop them...

They were a juggernaut that year...
I guess some teams thought this was the only way to beat them..

[fox46]

What happens if a robot attempts to block you from entering the safe zone and you push them in on your way to score?

[45Auto]

What happens if a robot attempts to block you from entering the safe zone and you push them in on your way to score?

<G61> The actions of an ALLIANCE shall not cause an opposing ALLIANCE to violate a rule and thus incur PENALTIES. Any rule violations committed by the affected ALLIANCE shall be excused, and no PENALTIES will be assigned.

[fox46]

Hmm- don't like that one... So as long as you get your opponent to push you into their scoring area you can harass them all you want?

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by fox46

Hmm- don't like that one... So as long as you get your opponent to push you into their scoring area you can harass them all you want?

Not anymore. See Team Update #6

[sircedric4]

And it looks like by my fellow mentor bringing up the flaw in the "safe zone", the taking a 3 point penalty to stop a 36 point logo score, the GDC has taken notice. Team Update 6 makes it a death knell to enter the safe zone to block an opposing team score. The penalty is even greater than the pinning penalty. Automatic yellow card, and if you contact another robot it's a red card.

On one hand I am happy to see this change in the rules, because if it happens to us we have a specific ruling to pull out. We have been planning all along to be sitting in our safe zone scoring, so any discussion we had was in fear of the worst happening to us. This update pretty much makes the safe zones inviolate.

On the other hand, it is obvious that the GDC is making this game have shades of Overdrive with all the contact penalties and protected zones. I personally hated that aspect of Overdrive with the penalties more often than not deciding the matches. This almost makes defensive bots useless, which is a shame since a basic kitbot can't really do any scoring. This year is gonna be especially hard on the rookies I guess.

To stay on topic if you are completely inside your safe zone then you appear to be completely untouchable upon pain of lost game.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

In 2008 (Overdrive), did anyone actually possess an opponent's trackball for an extended period of time to keep them from hurdling at the cost of 1 penalty?

That strategy was discussed, but I dont think anyone actually tried it. There certainly was a risk of a Yellow or Red Card for this egregious behavior.

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv.../2008gal_qf1m2

I believe they were given a yellow card.

[pfreivald]

Funny, by my recollection, contact outside the bumper zone penalties were just about NEVER called during Overdrive...

[fox46]

Hazzah for update 6!