Democrat or Republican

[Mike Rush]

Just some comments relating to a previous post from someone who's been cured of a terrible disese (former democrat)

Pro-Choice = Pro Genocide (Seen the pictures from the new GE 3D utrasound of the few week old baby in the womb yet? They are babies - Human babies - Little children - Don't you get it??!? It is incredible to me how anyone cannot see that unless they just like lying to themselves! Me-Me-Me..... That is a pro-choice attitude! How can you consider birthing a baby up to its chin, sticking a large suction needle in the baby's barain and sucking it out, a choice??? ie partial birth abortion. UGH!??!?!??!)

Anti-Vouchers = Protecting a system in need of reform from market forces (Public education is that good huh? Or are you afraid of competition?)

Medicinal Pot = Good (I'll go along with this)

Assisted Suicide = Good (until its your kids convincing you to die... Very BAD!! What about forced suicide (euthenasia) since we cant help the patient anyway? )

Maintain current level of state/federal taxes for poor and middle class. Raise taxes slightly on the wealthy. = a half truth & theft! ( only the wealty pay taxes! Check the IRS Stats. The upper half of the people ranked by income levels pay 96% of the taxes now!!! How much money is enough? What additional program would you like to sell to get votes for the party? When government redirecting wealth (taxes) is involved the power is to take from the few and give to the many since the many have more votes. This assures electoral victories.)

Anti-Free trade (NAFTA). Bad for American workers. (Afraid of a little competition? Improve productivity. It's a better alternative than protectionism.)

Total separation between church and state (GJ 9th Circuit w/ regards to the plege of allegiance). (Sure glad you were not around in 1776. The men who wrote the Declaration of Independance & the Constitution were proud of thier religious beliefs. They wanted to be free to practice thier religion --- not be free from religion!)

[Massive amounts of] Regulation, not a ban, on fire arms. = Enslavement the peoples power! ( When it is asked why other peoples do not reform thier backward, opressive governments, the answer is they cannot!! They(the people) have no real power without the possibility (maybe the probability) of the use of a comparable amount of force which would come from thier government. Guns keep you free, like it or not.)

Universal health coverage (Federally run). = REALLY BAD!! (welcome to socialism... What's next? All industry and jobs 'federally run"? Sounds great. THe government has done such a good job with the INS, Customs, $500 military hammers, coffee pots that survive plane crashes, etc, etc, etc that you want to empower them to decide on your health care??!??!)

Gray-out Davis... Former chief of staff of Gov. Moonbeam ... Just another self serving Democrat who will do and say anything to retain or accumulate power. (Watched the Dems in Minn at the 'memorial service'? - These people were laughing, partying and hucking it up, booing the dignataries who came to pay respect to Wellstone!??! Incredible!!! Have they no shame? Have they no self respect?)

Democrats -- Party of the past.

Republicans -- Party of the future.

Stand up - Think Clearly - Vote Republican (at least you will stand FOR something)

Wait... One more thing... Do you know what the definition of a conservative is? A liberal who's been mugged!

[FotoPlasma]

Leave it to MattK to pick the most controversial topic on Earth, start a thread about it, and leave it to fester and degenerate into a flamewar.

It hasn't really happened yet, but with the way things are going, I can see it...

[Melissa Nute]

Originally posted by Mike Rush
Total separation between church and state (GJ 9th Circuit w/ regards to the plege of allegiance). (Sure glad you were not around in 1776. The men who wrote the Declaration of Independance & the Constitution were proud of thier religious beliefs. They wanted to be free to practice thier religion --- not be free from religion!)

Actually...if I'm recalling my textbooks and teachers correctly, some of the major men that wrote the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution were not religious individuals or Deists...why would these people want protestant religions governering their lives and the government...

Also Under God was added to the pledge in the 20th century...it wasn't something that our Founding Fathers would have wanted...

[SlamminSammy]

I can't vote Democrat after Tues. night. Those people make me sick. (For those who don't know what happened see http://www.twincities.com/mld/twinci...cs/4408094.htm or http://www.startribune.com/stories/1752/3400441.html) Not letting people attend (including Vice-President Cheney) a memorial service because of their political beliefs is almost as sad as turning a respectful and heartfelt service for Paul Wellstone into what the Associated Press called a “a furious series of partisan speeches” and a rally “to help [Senator Wellstone’s] ballot replacement to victory next week.”

[Mike Schroeder]

hey

i got a question i understand this is the CHit Chat but..

Democrat vs Republican - who cares

[FotoPlasma]

Originally posted by SlamminSammy
I can't vote Democrat after Tues. night.

You said it yourself, you're an authoritarian conservative. You wouldn't have voted democrat, anyway.

Other than that, Cheney has absolutely no right to be there, and neither did any other republican, if you ask me. Paul Wellstone was one of the most compassionate senators this country has ever seen.

If you think the attendees of the memorial service thought of the death of Paul Wellstone lightly, you really need to reexamine your values and thought processes. The deaths of great people are never cheerful events, especially those of people who have spent their lives trying to protect the rights and welfare of others.

I'd really like to see a martyr come out of the GOP (Only for the novelty, mind you. I never like seeing good people die). But I guess Hell has a better chance of freezing over...

Originally posted by Mr.Volcano
Democrat vs Republican - who cares

You, Mike, have not read my previous post. I suggest you do so.

[SlamminSammy]

Originally posted by FotoPlasma

Cheney has absolutely no right to be there, and neither did any other republican, if you ask me

You're as bad as they are, especially if you think I didn't admire Wellstone. It was only his views I opposed. As a politician he voted with his scruples and would not be bought out. I completely agree that the service should be a solemn event and that is why I am disgusted that the monsters turned it into campaign rally (this is also the reason the U of MN (where the service was held) condems the DFL and television stations are working on a deal to give free airtime to the GOP). You have been brainwashed and must learn to think for yourself again. There exists a line betwixt the politicians and the politics. Never forget this.

[FotoPlasma]

Originally posted by SlamminSammy
television stations are working on a deal to give free airtime to the GOP

This doesn't really have anything to do with what we're talking about, but I just thought that it was interesting that the United States is the only country (if I recall correctly, if I'm wrong, please correct me) in which political parties / candidates do not get free television airtime. To me, this seems to tip the scales of publicity in favor of wealthy candidates (disregarding the two main political parties, although minor parties would benefit [however, if all parties were represented, it might prove to be huge amounts of airtime. /me shrugs]).

Don't you just love how money is the driving force of our government, rather than the good of the people, or even what the politicians personally prefer?

[rbayer]

Originally posted by FotoPlasma



Other than that, Cheney has absolutely no right to be there, and neither did any other republican, if you ask me. Paul Wellstone was one of the most compassionate senators this country has ever seen.

If you think the attendees of the memorial service thought of the death of Paul Wellstone lightly, you really need to reexamine your values and thought processes. The deaths of great people are never cheerful events, especially those of people who have spent their lives trying to protect the rights and welfare of others.

What does that have to do with anything? I'm about as Liberal as they come, yet Sam and I are still friends and even coach a lego-league team together. Should political views affect how we like a person?

I honestly believe that Paul Wellstone was one of the last good (in the moral sense) politicians. He never sold out, he never backed down, and he never cared whether how he voted on a bill would get him re-elected. He even disagreed with the democratic party at times. I don't know about you, but I think that means something.

In my opinion, the memorial should have been about Wellstone, not about the DFL (that's what we Minnesotans call democrats) and the upcoming election. People of all backgrounds and political views should be allowed to say goodbye to a man they worked with on a daily basis.

Seing the so-called "memorial" service quickly turn into a campaign rally sickened me so much that I had to turn it off. If you've seen it, you know what I mean.

[AdamT]

Originally posted by Mike Rush
The Truth Hurts Sometimes...

I would like to point out that the mentioned post was totally uncalled for and extremely offensive in my point of view. Not only is it not necessary to pick apart one person's views in the manner shown, it is completely ignorant to try and state one person's views as "The Truth." Almost everyone who has posted in this thread before has been somewhat civil about the debate and has acknowledged that there is no one way to look a single matter.

I respect that you have your opinion of issues, but I do not think that the extreme detail in which the matters were discussed was necessary. In fact, some of the statements made were quite offensive to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one offended. So in discussing matters of such nature I ask this, please be considerate of other's views, be civil about the issues, and try and when posting about sensitive issues (as in ones that people have died over) please remember that what you say may be quite offensive to someone else.

[FotoPlasma]

Originally posted by rbayer


What does that have to do with anything? I'm about as Liberal as they come, yet Sam and I are still friends and even coach a lego-league team together. Should political views affect how we like a person?

I honestly believe that Paul Wellstone was one of the last good (in the moral sense) politicians. He never sold out, he never backed down, and he never cared whether how he voted on a bill would get him re-elected. He even disagreed with the democratic party at times. I don't know about you, but I think that means something.

In my opinion, the memorial should have been about Wellstone, not about the DFL (that's what we Minnesotans call democrats) and the upcoming election. People of all backgrounds and political views should be allowed to say goodbye to a man they worked with on a daily basis.

Seing the so-called "memorial" service quickly turn into a campaign rally sickened me so much that I had to turn it off. If you've seen it, you know what I mean.

I have many different kinds of friends, as well. I'd like to think that I'm friends with most everyone who frequents Tigerbolt, including such people who have previously posted in this thread as DJ Fluck, Clark, Katie, Chelly, Wetzel, Joe and Amy Ross, Melissa (yearbook50), Kristina, M. Krass, Bill (heh, duh).... the list goes on, and I think that covers most of the political spectrum (and in the case of Libertarians, even some who aren't on the spectrum). I'm an agnostic/atheist (depends on my mood ), and a good majority of the above-mentioned people practice a religion, of some sort. I would really like to be able to think of myself as an accepting and open-minded person, but I don't particularly like making such judgments about myself, I'll leave that to all of you.

As for Paul Wellstone, himself, my mother was responsible for donating more than $4500 to his campaign, and we live half the country away (California). He was a great senator. One of the few who cared about the people whom he served, and stood up for what he believed in. I know about this very well, sadly, because he was the only senator (republican OR democrat, because both sides are owned by major banking companies) who was openly against the Bankruptcy Reform Bill. The whole bankruptcy issue is entirely off-topic, so I'll not get into it.

As for the memorial itself, I agree that it did become a political rally, but I don't think you could really eulogize Paul Wellstone in any proper manner without promoting the Democratic Party.

Oh well, Jesse Ventura might appoint a casual citizen, now, "just for the novelty."

[Kristina]

Originally posted by AdamT



I respect that you have your opinion of issues, but I do not think that the extreme detail in which the matters were discussed was necessary. In fact, some of the statements made were quite offensive to me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one offended.

ditto

ammendment: and for the record Jim is ditto'ing with me too but he's afraid to post again in fear of brandon getting mad at him.

[Bill Gold]

I just wanted to say that I'll have a response to Mike Rush's post when I get back from my trip to Riverside, CA for my grandparents' 61st wedding anniversary Sunday evening. It's too late at night for me to think of anything intelligent.

-Bill

[Brandon Martus]

Well, its about that time again. The ceremonial 'hey, cool it, lets think about what we are saying' post.

Yes it's ok to post your opinion until people start saying 'Here's my opinion, it's right no matter what you say, because I say so.' I've received a few complaints already about this thread, and I hope the two I've received will be the end of them.

I really hope this thread isn't going to turn into another 'pick at your every word to prove you wrong or make some obscure/incorrect/offensive accusation about your beliefs' thread. Anwyay, Lets think about where we are, what we're saying, and that other people have their own opinions that you may or may not agree with. Forcing your belifs on someone does not accomplish anything positive, it only creates a lot of problems.

Lets try to keep this a positive & constructive conversation... not a 'vote _________ because I say its better' shouting match.

And, don't forget to read tihs thread if you haven't already.

[Mike Rush]

There is a truth. There is a right and there is a wrong. It is completely independent of what you (or I) think about any subject. Unfortunately, moral relativism has permeated our society and is tearing it apart.

The battle is between traditional moral values and post modern relativism. It is a battle about the basic civil societal beliefs. Ask yourself... If right and wrong are relative, where is the line? Who decides where it is? When will it cross the point at which you would draw it? What will you do then? What should you do now?

If you were offended by the description of the abortion, maybe it was because, even for a fraction of a second, you realized it was a baby I was referring to. If it were just some shapeless blob without identity, maybe you would not have been offended by the description. It is important to describe indetain exactly what happens when a baby is aborted by the 'partial birth' method. Otherwise, clear thinking people might not realize exactly how barbaric and inhumae this procedure is.

My guess would be if this same thing were happening to puppies or baby seals, most 'pro-choice', animal-rights liberal activists would be up in arms calling for a prohibition. But, because it is happening to HUMANS, and it's a 'CHOICE', it's OK!!

--Previous post by Yearbook50---
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Actually...if I'm recalling my textbooks and teachers correctly, some of the major men that wrote the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution were not religious individuals or Deists...why would these people want protestant religions governering their lives and the government...
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Which ones?

Democrats -- Party of the past.

Republicans -- Party of the future.

Stand up - Think Clearly - Vote Republican (at least you will stand FOR something)