toughest regional in 2011?

[EricH]

The reason the MI State Championship doesn't count is because it's a championship, not a regional. If the MI teams are going to take MSC as a regional, then I'll go ahead and take the Archimedes, Curie, Galileo, Newton, and Einstein--especially Einstein--"regionals" as toughest.

Oh? You have a problem with including events that you have to qualify to get into as regionals? Well, then, MSC is not a regional.

The MI districts are tough, though. I think those should be counted as regionals; they're as large as or larger than some of the smaller regionals, and the competition level is as high or higher, especially once you get past the first event for some teams.

[Akash Rastogi]

Definitely San Diego. While Midwest is always strong, the San Diego teams try to one-up their level each year. Especially in the case of teams like 973, 1538, and 1717 who dramatically improve each year.

[svenw]

Hardest to Win: Waterloo
Toughest: Midwest or San Diego
Yes there is a difference between which are the hardest to win and which ones have the toughest competition

[Justin Montois]

Midwest.

Midwest Elims are a great look at what you should expect in St. Louis.

If 359 was going to San Diego that might have tipped it though.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by EricH

The reason the MI State Championship doesn't count is because it's a championship, not a regional. If the MI teams are going to take MSC as a regional, then I'll go ahead and take the Archimedes, Curie, Galileo, Newton, and Einstein--especially Einstein--"regionals" as toughest.

Only being absolutely technical is MSC a regional. It just has a much more difficult registration process. Divisions don't count because they're officially part of the CMP.

Anyway, if we're doing districts, then Kettering and Traverse City take the cake.

Kettering has two-time defending world champ 67 and divisional alliance captains 33. As for divisional first-round picks, we have 27, 51, 67, 70, and 2337. These are just those teams that excelled at the CMP. How about MSC Champs 2834, or alliance captains of their upset district 1243? Plenty of other teams deserving recognition, like 494, 70's twin, or 3450, the remake of 397.

11 of last year's 24 MSC elimination teams came from Kettering.
By BBQ, it was the toughest week 1 event by far.

This year, due to space restriction, a few strong out-of-area teams were forced to move elsewhere, making Traverse City another strong location.

MSC Champs as captains 1918, Archimedes 2nd overall pick 201, and Newton 3rd pick and Kettering Champs 910 headline this event, but there's several other strong contenders. 830 and 2009 CMP champs 247 seek to come back from uncharacteristic lows last year. Sophomores 3357 are coming off an Einstein appearance. Newton and MSC first-round picks, twice district finalists (as captains no less), 2619 is hungry after coming up short time and time again in 2010. 2771 broke out last season, alliance captain at MSC.

Note that these are the best of the Michigan teams. Many other teams would be major contenders at most out-of-state events, but the teams I've mentioned are the ones that make it in the toughest place to play: Michigan. Some of the other Michigan events are more than loaded compared to most regionals, but Traverse City and Kettering are the toughest of the 9.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Basel A

Only being absolutely technical is MSC a regional. It just has a much more difficult registration process. Divisions don't count because they're officially part of the CMP.

All right, I'll take the entire CMP. 340+ teams, 4 fields, option for open registration (and then qualifying anyway), definitely a tough regional.

Actually, on second thought, I'll take IRI... Only 80 picked teams compete there, what's not to like? Oh, wait, not an official event

I'd say that any "compete-to-qualify-to-enter" event should be excluded from consideration for toughest regional. If you're there, it's because you're good anyway. Those events get their own category: Toughest of the Tough Events. (Eligible: MSC, CMP, IRI, other qualification/selection-based entry events I'm not aware of.) Of those, it's a tossup between MSC and IRI, but I'll take IRI (more teams, larger area that they hail from, and the insane amount of elimination ties last year). MSC for official event, with Einstein Field at CMP being tougher but not quite large enough for its own event.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by EricH

All right, I'll take the entire CMP. 340+ teams, 4 fields, option for open registration (and then qualifying anyway), definitely a tough regional.

Actually, on second thought, I'll take IRI... Only 80 picked teams compete there, what's not to like? Oh, wait, not an official event

I'd say that any "compete-to-qualify-to-enter" event should be excluded from consideration for toughest regional. If you're there, it's because you're good anyway. Those events get their own category: Toughest of the Tough Events. (Eligible: MSC, CMP, IRI, other qualification/selection-based entry events I'm not aware of.) Of those, it's a tossup between MSC and IRI, but I'll take IRI (more teams, larger area that they hail from, and the insane amount of elimination ties last year). MSC for official event, with Einstein Field at CMP being tougher but not quite large enough for its own event.

By technical, I wasn't creating a definition of regional, but rather using FIRST's working standard. By FRC, MSC is a regional. I tentatively assume their definition is something along the lines of "Event that directly qualifies teams for the Championship," but this doesn't consider that district results plays into who goes from MI.

Regardless, I would agree with you otherwise. I'd go with Einstein, then IRI, the MSC. Einstein is a bit easier because you only have to win 4 matches though

[Koko Ed]

I go to alot of regionals every year and of the six events I am going to this year Midwest should be stronger than FLR by a slight margin.
I expect improvements from Midwest in quality of competition this year (there was a huge drop off in quality after the top level teams at the event last year) with no other Midwestern regionals to dilute the pool at the event like it did last year. If 1114 came back there would be no question which was the strongest regional.
FLR is good at attracting solid Canadian teams and is one of the few regionals that can still attract teams from the Michigan to come. Teams from the mid Atlantic and the midwest often come as well. It is stronger in the middle of the pack than the Midwest which makes it more competitive during qualification. Being a week 1 regional hurts FLR as it will most likely be plagued by bugs while Midwest should have no such problems by week 4 and many of their teams should be doing their second regional.

[gorrilla]

Florida is going to be really intense this year.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Basel A

3450, the remake of 397.

I appreciate the mention but I have to correct this false statement since I know I will be hearing this repeated if I don't quash it now. Team 3450 is a distinct and unique entity that is not related to 397. 397 was put on hiatus as a team due to lack of student interest. Several of the mentors, myself and brother among them, worked together to form a new team. We accepted the 3 students from 397 who were still interested (within the limit of 5 returning students for rookie teams) and moved to a different school. This was accomplished with a ton of help from our sister team 314, Big Mo. To say that 3450 is just 397 remade is like saying that Top Gear US is just like Top Gear UK. Some of the elements are there but I think you will find that they are drastically different. All of the mentors who came over from 397 have agreed that it is a completely different team this year.

Anyway, thank you for the mention, we will try not to disappoint you.

PS. Sorry for the off topic post, I have heard several people make this statement (not on CD) and felt that it was important to clear up any misconceptions about our team and our motives. If you have further questions feel free to PM me or stop by our shop (PM for address and times).

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

I appreciate the mention but I have to correct this false statement since I know I will be hearing this repeated if I don't quash it now. Team 3450 is a distinct and unique entity that is not related to 397.

Ah, my apologies, Andrew.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Basel A

Ah, my apologies, Andrew.

Not a problem, I can see where that misconception would come from.

[pfreivald]

The toughest regional that matters is the one you're in!

[Chris is me]

MSC isn't a regional for this discussion because it doesn't have open registration. The event is aiming to be the strongest event of the year by design and thus restricts invitations to the best. All other events, including Championship to an extent, have open registration.

You know what's weird? One of the following teams won't win Midwest this year: 16, 111, 71, 1625. To win that event you'll have to pick one of those teams or get through an alliance of two of those. Not even factoring in the other teams, is that something you can accomplish?

[Lil' Lavery]

The regional with the most elite teams is rarely the toughest to win.