Legality of older spikes

[ratdude747]

My team has a bunch of 554's donated old spikes sitting. I also am wiring a light panel (red, white, and blue LEDs in the respective shapes) using 3 spikes.

These spikes must be old... they are smaller than the ones they make now (not by much), and my knowedge from my previous team tells me that they are older than 06.

they are a better fit for the wiring board we are using... and i think they look cool!

they are true spikes though...

my questions:

1. are they legal or must I use the newer, larger spikes?
2. do they behave like newer spikes (in code, spec. labview)?

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

1. are they legal or must I use the newer, larger spikes?
2. do they behave like newer spikes (in code, spec. labview)?

No idea about the latter, but the former is easy:

If they are available COTS for any team to purchase from a VENDOR, they are legal. If they are not, then they are not.

[Team#2057-Vegas]

someone of better experience should answer this for you but i think they would be legal.. but the programming may not be the same. I'd also be in fear of burning more fuses.

best of luck in the long run

2057

<edit> the spikes would only be legal if they came in a past kit of parts i believe. look at the rules </edit>

[RyanN]

There were two types of the older spikes. If I remember right, here's how the old ones worked.

Spike kind #1. (I think these were blue)
When off, both M+ and M- are tied to ground.



Spike kind #2. (I think these were red)
When off, both M+ and M- are tied to 12V.

No picture of those...

You can tell they're the old kind because they have no sleeve for the PWM cable to go in. You can imagine how much of a headache this was for teams. I remember we glued ours in place.

The current generation of Spikes are still blue, unlike their Victor counterparts.



Someone may correct me. I'm going off of my memory.

Speaking of old Victors... we're using the old red labeled 884 Victors this year because our electrical guy likes the sound of the fans more.

But as far as Spikes go... the blue ones are still legal. Red ones are not.

[pfreivald]

Team#2057-Vegas, you are mistaken. Whether or not something was in "old kit" has no bearing whatsoever on its legality now.

[ratdude747]

yup. the first one is it. we have like 4 or so... off being tied to ground is actually a good thing for what i am doing with it...

and they are legal? if so, then very cool! i like the retro look! the no shroud issue i will deal with if it becomes a problem.

they also gave us a whole IFI control system... one of the victors is the old kind with the shiny red foil text; the rest are blue like the newer non-vex ones. but they all are 884, not the ancient 883's . it is mounted on a IFI kit chassis. but the mechanum wheels are AM and the controller is custom hand soldered... It was very nice of them... it is very fun to drive around...

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Team#2057-Vegas, you are mistaken. Whether or not something was in "old kit" has no bearing whatsoever on its legality now.

It can... If an item is no longer available, it would normally be illegal <R28>. However, if that item was custom made for FIRST from a previous KOP, it would be legal <R30>. Or if it was in a previous KOP and on an old robot, it would be legal <R29>.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

There is not a distinction between the old style Spike and the newer style Spike except as described above. Likewise there is no real difference between the Red Label and Blue Label Victor 884. (There was some confusion during the transition of the labels.) However, if one reads through the manual you will find no mention of a requirement to use only Victor 884 or jaguar speed controllers this year. The rules have been relaxed for the use of any controller as long as the command is generated within the cRIO where it can be controlled by FMS.

[Jon Stratis]

Doesn't <R48> come into play here?

<R48> All electrical loads (motors, actuators, compressors) must be supplied by an approved power regulating device (speed controller, relay module, or Digital Sidecar PWM port) that is controlled by the cRIO-FRC on the ROBOT.

Power regulating devices are “approved” if they are listed in the 2011 Kit of Parts Checklist or have been approved by FIRST. To seek approval for a different device, please contact frcparts@usfirst.org with the component specifications. Any approved devices beyond those on the 2011 Kit of Parts Checklist will be published at www.usfirst.org/frc/kitofparts.

The old Spike is not an "approved" power regulating device, to the best of my knowledge... it's not in the 2011 KoP checklist, and it hasn't been listed at the site mentioned in the blue box for R48.

I would highly recommend following the blue box instructions to get this old style Spike approved as a power regulating device for this year before basing your design on it.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

Doesn't <R48> come into play here?

Checking...

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

Doesn't <R48> come into play here?



The old Spike is not an "approved" power regulating device, to the best of my knowledge... it's not in the 2011 KoP checklist, and it hasn't been listed at the site mentioned in the blue box for R48.

I would highly recommend following the blue box instructions to get this old style Spike approved as a power regulating device for this year before basing your design on it.

it can bw swapped for newer spikes easily (thats a plywood electronics board for 'ya). We have the newer spikes, but these older ones just fit things well.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

it can bw swapped for newer spikes easily (thats a plywood electronics board for 'ya). We have the newer spikes, but these older ones just fit things well.

I'd suggest you ask on FIRSTs Q&A forum.

[ratdude747]

I will do that.

WAIT- I am using them for a LIGHT. team update #8 allows using spikes OR any other relay for Lights. does that mean that for my intentended use, this thread is a moot point?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

In response to TU #6, I am not so sure. Please standby.

[ratdude747]

re-reading the update, i see that it refers back to the relays allowed, being spikes.

IIRC, the only difference between the old blues and new spikes is the plastic. they seem to have the same "guts"