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  #61   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-02-2011, 10:54
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

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Originally Posted by JVN View Post
I find it funny that everyone is up in arms that they don't have the exact gearbox they need to mount their motor to the point that some are suggesting FIRST should allow an extra of the "easier to use" motor because of this.
It's not COTS until it is a component on your shelf.

During the course of my day job I occasionally run into components that exist in a catalog, but when we try to buy them we discover they don't actually exist. If I was willing to buy 1000 of them the company would pull out the tooling and make some, but they won't do it for the 3 I might need. Consequentially, I have to source and commit to COTS early or plan to go around. The Banebots situation is just an extension of the real world.

Stock Drive Products anyone? I notice that they have this 10 tooth and this 27 tooth which might be useful if they were about .7708 apart. It also seems that the 10 tooth has a bore just under 5mm. Hmmm...
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Unread 03-02-2011, 11:37
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

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Originally Posted by JVN View Post
PS - In my day we still had to walk up hills both ways, but the snow had already melted.
With no shoes on a gravel road !

In the dark...
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Unread 03-02-2011, 11:37
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

I stand corrected on their confiuration, I missed that they are 2.7:1 Spur gears. You're right about leaving space around them, we hadn't thought about that .... we were just assuming they'll fit in the same space as a CIM. We should be fine, though.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 13:35
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

Quote:
Originally Posted by kramarczyk View Post
It's not COTS until it is a component on your shelf.

During the course of my day job I occasionally run into components that exist in a catalog, but when we try to buy them we discover they don't actually exist. If I was willing to buy 1000 of them the company would pull out the tooling and make some, but they won't do it for the 3 I might need. Consequentially, I have to source and commit to COTS early or plan to go around. The Banebots situation is just an extension of the real world.

Stock Drive Products anyone? I notice that they have this 10 tooth and this 27 tooth which might be useful if they were about .7708 apart. It also seems that the 10 tooth has a bore just under 5mm. Hmmm...
Normally I would agree with you about buying your own gears and making your own gearboxes, but there are many many teams that don't have that capability, either in people, machining or sponsors. I hope this Banebot problem spurs people to get out and learn more about gears, motors, etc. I know we are planning on experimenting this fall.

But the fact remains that FIRST put out 4 Banebot motors while limiting the other motors. No pinion gears, no gearboxes. Most people are going to go to the Banebot web site and expect to order from there and expect to get their order in a reasonable amount of time.

The FIRST deadline is hard and fast. Learning how to design and build your first gearbox isn't something you want to do during the build season.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 14:07
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

FYI.
Yesterday (2/2) we received P60's ordered on 1/18
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Unread 03-02-2011, 14:33
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun View Post
Normally I would agree with you about buying your own gears and making your own gearboxes, but there are many many teams that don't have that capability, either in people, machining or sponsors.
Sorry for my words, but this is a load of crap.

You have a group of people interested in engineering and dedicated to a goal. If you guys can't sit down, and decide to learn how to make a simple spur gearbox with the tools you have available, stop competing, because you either have no competitive drive.

Making a single speed, speed reducing, torque increasing plain jane gearbox is a darn simple design exercise, and if a group of intelligent, passionate and motivated people can't do it, it's just a lack of wanting it bad enough. Doing one that can be "machined" by hand is a tad bit more difficult, but only marginally so. I know of several teams who have literally hand made gearboxes (we do it quite often prototyping...).

I don't mean to be cocky, as I'm no amazing designer, but I could knock out a N:1 single speed gearbox in thirty minutes or less in CAD, and a few minutes or less in conceptual design. This is true of many, many members on FIRST teams, many of which have no special skills and are just average people.



In summary, you can do it, and if you need help just ask.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 14:34
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

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Originally Posted by Brandon Holley View Post
You actually have received the CIM-U-LATOR gearbox? If so, can you take a picture of it and post it up here for people to reference.

We placed our order the day they started taking them and still haven't even received a tracking number.


-Brando
Sorry to be unclear, we ordered p60s.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 14:45
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

I dunno Adam, you're screaming a knowledge paradox. It takes a lot of time to learn something new if you have no prior knowledge. It's very disheartening to try to learn it, produce something from what's learned, and have the product fail in use regardless of the effort put in. Lessons may be learned in the process, but those future lessons sure aren't helping anyone now.

On the other hand, after weening ourselves off of always-COTS options for gearboxes, I will say that the lessons are invaluable to the future of the team. Yet it's easy for me to say that because I have essentially had 6 tries to get things right as a mentor whereas many students only have 2-3 (or in the case of most rookies, less than 1 -- at which point mentor recruitment is critical, but not always possible).
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Unread 03-02-2011, 14:56
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHeard View Post

I don't mean to be cocky, as I'm no amazing designer, but I could knock out a N:1 single speed gearbox in thirty minutes or less in CAD, and a few minutes or less in conceptual design. This is true of many, many members on FIRST teams, many of which have no special skills and are just average people.
Adam is right. Last year I made a simple 1:5 gearbox using a few pieces of Delrin, some vex standoffs, and gears from an FP Trans in about an hour or two and did most of the work using a hand drill and drill press. I ran the delrin side plates on the mill just to get a decent looking edge, but I did the rough cuts on a bad saw. I'd imagine that most teams have access to a Drill press and Bandsaw or similar tools. It's really not that difficult to make a simple gearbox, especially if you have a basic understanding of gears and how they work.
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Unread 03-02-2011, 17:20
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

If you are looking for 16:1 gearboxes for low power operations, there are some older Banebots 36mm gearboxes in their closeout section. They come with a 385 motor which is illegal for FRC, but the 395 mounts just fine to them if you trim the 395 shaft length and swap the pinion over to the 395. They are cheap and ship next day. Not as rugged as a P60, but we've used them on past robots without a problem.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 09:11
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

For those waiting, IMHO they are worth it. Here are some pics:





Total weight with motor 20.9 ounces.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 11:01
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

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Originally Posted by Dad1279 View Post
For those waiting, IMHO they are worth it. Here are some pics:





Total weight with motor 20.9 ounces.
Uh... We should open source that and get teams with CNC or sponsors with CNCs to the work...
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Unread 05-02-2011, 12:33
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

Man, if I had known the gearbox was that simple I would have just made it myself.
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Unread 05-02-2011, 12:39
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

Wow, those are simple.

Ours are sitting just across the border waiting for pickup.

-Nick
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Unread 05-02-2011, 13:20
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Re: CIM-U-LATORS

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Originally Posted by Chris is me View Post
Man, if I had known the gearbox was that simple I would have just made it myself.
The online description made me picture something pretty similar to that.
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