Go to Post Sometimes we over react to things, and thats where a PM can clear a bunch of confusion. - mechanicalbrain [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > Rumor Mill
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #181   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:26
FRC4ME FRC4ME is offline
Registered User
FRC #0339
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
Posts: 324
FRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant futureFRC4ME has a brilliant future
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Matt View Post
will.i.am, in one of the worst live performances, during the largest sporting event in America.

If this is the best FIRST can do it's in need of some big help.

And that's assuming people can look into his helmet or whatever and actually see anything, or understand the generic lyrics and actually find the reference to FIRST ROBOTICS COMPETITION. (Pro-tip: the word first is used for many things.) Can we also remember this is the man who appeared in "hologram" on CNN on election night.

I mean really guys, I come back to find CD defending the Black Eye Peas. REALLY?
Honestly, I think the subtle reference was the best we could have hoped for. No one is going to suddenly look up FRC now after seeing the halftime show. But it is not will.I.am's job to tell people about FIRST. That's our job. What he did is give us a talking point. He knew we would see the references while the general public would not. That's an opportunity! Now what's the first thing you'll say when you're telling someone about FIRST? "Remember the superbowl halftime show? Did you notice that those lyrics were a bit different? Guess what he was referring to?" This will work for anyone who watched the superbowl, and once they realize there was indeed a reference, they will undoubtedly be impressed.

Also, the FRC logo on the helmet was clearly will.I.am's best possible effort to fulfill Dean's request to wear the hat without ruining the costume. I'm shocked that people are criticizing him for breaking a promise when he (1) never actually promised anything and (2) attempted to fulfill it anyway.

Making FIRST mainstream will take a lot more time and effort than a simple celebrity endorsement. The fact that we even got a reference in the superbowl is amazing. Now let's get back to work...
__________________
Go directly to queue. Do not pass pit.
Reply With Quote
  #182   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:26
goldenglove002 goldenglove002 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Alex Epstein
FRC #1311 (Kell Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 54
goldenglove002 is a jewel in the roughgoldenglove002 is a jewel in the roughgoldenglove002 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Quote:
Originally Posted by viperred396 View Post
Link?
http://www.facebook.com/pages/First-...1616518?v=wall
__________________


2011 Peachtree Regional Dean's List Recipient
2011 Peachtree Regional Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers Entrepreneurship Award
2011 Lemelson/MIT InvenTeams Grant
2010 North Carolina Regional Chairmans Award
2010 Peachtree Regional Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers Entrepreneurship Award
2010 SeaWorld Busch Gardens Environmental Excellence Award
2009 Peachtree Regional Chairmans Award
2008 Peachtree Regional Judges Award
Reply With Quote
  #183   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:29
BrendanB BrendanB is offline
Registered User
AKA: Brendan Browne
FRC #1058 (PVC Pirates)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Londonderry, NH
Posts: 3,103
BrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond reputeBrendanB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

This production has been in the works for several months at least! The actors, stage, songs, and the like were not decided in the past two weeks! I'm sure will.i.am did what he could and the result was what we saw and it was more than he needed to do! Dean gave him the hat hoping he would wear it, he never said he would wear it nor was he required.

Could you imagine all the agents and producers with all of these artists who would have had major problems is he turned it into a FIRST sideshow?
__________________
1519 Mechanical M.A.Y.H.E.M. 2008 - 2010
3467 Windham Windup 2011 - 2015
1058 PVC Pirates 2016 - xxxx
Reply With Quote
  #184   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:29
whackedwatchdog whackedwatchdog is offline
Registered User
FRC #3224 (LHS)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Georgia
Posts: 32
whackedwatchdog is a jewel in the roughwhackedwatchdog is a jewel in the roughwhackedwatchdog is a jewel in the rough
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...84063051616518 Will take you to the two pictures of it, http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...976 700_n.jpg is the clearer one, and http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...288 102_n.jpg is the slightly granier of the two.

Edit: Beaten to it!
Reply With Quote
  #185   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:29
JaneYoung JaneYoung is offline
Onward through the fog.
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 5,996
JaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond reputeJaneYoung has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Blondie View Post
Getting any celebrity to notice us is not the goal of FIRST.
That's a pretty broad statement. Go back and review Dean's comments during Kick Off and apply that statement to the concept of having members of the entertainment industry shine a spotlight on FIRST. In my opinion, if the spotlight is handled with care and wisdom, it can be helpful. If it is handled carelessly, then FIRST will contend with the results.

Think about how often we note having seen Dean Kamen on TV or read articles about Dean Kamen and/or his inventions. Many of us pay attention to what's going on in the space program because of the connection that Dave Lavery has to it. We celebrate the years that the Mars rovers have been on Mars and we look forward to new explorations and challenges. Look at the difference that teams are making. For example, The New Cool is a book that I'm really looking forward to reading.

We have to keep our focus while continuing to develop the programs in FIRST and in STEM initiatives but it doesn't mean we should isolate ourselves while doing so. As the programs continue to grow and develop, there needs to be a mindfulness about how to do so in ways that spotlight the best we have to offer. And, of course, even as we tend to argue, disagree, criticize, critique, and analyze, we can always be gracious. That doesn't take rocket science.

Jane
__________________
Excellence is contagious. ~ Andy Baker, President, AndyMark, Inc. and Woodie Flowers Award 2003

Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved.
~ Helen Keller
(1880-1968)
Reply With Quote
  #186   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:39
XaulZan11's Avatar
XaulZan11 XaulZan11 is offline
Registered User
AKA: John Christiansen
FRC #1732
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Milwaukee, Wi
Posts: 1,329
XaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to XaulZan11
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

I'm not surprised at all that he didn't mention FIRST. In the grand sceme of things, we are very very very small. Hopefully one day it will change, but we aren't there yet. I find it a little silly that people are actually upset Will.i.am didn't blatently call out FIRST.

I actually don't think his hat shows the FIRST logo. I've seen the pictures and just don't think it is. I think us FIRSTers are looking for what we want to see. I watched and listened to the halftime show along with my friends, who have heard of FIRST from me talking about it, but none of us picked up anything FIRST. If people who know about FIRST didn't pick up the references/logo, there is no way the typically person did.
Reply With Quote
  #187   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:41
Libby K's Avatar
Libby K Libby K is offline
Always a MidKnight Inventor.
FRC #1923 (The MidKnight Inventors)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Rookie Year: 1992
Location: West Windsor, NJ
Posts: 1,584
Libby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond reputeLibby K has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Quote:
Originally Posted by XaulZan11 View Post
I'm not surprised at all that he didn't mention FIRST. In the grand sceme of things, we are very very very small. Hopefully one day it will change, but we aren't there yet. I find it a little silly that people are actually upset Will.i.am didn't blatently call out FIRST.

I actually don't think his hat shows the FIRST logo. I've seen the pictures and just don't think it is. I think us FIRSTers are looking for what we want to see. I watched and listened to the halftime show along with my friends, who have heard of FIRST from me talking about it, but none of us picked up anything FIRST. If people who know about FIRST didn't pick up the references/logo, there is no way the typically person did.
Actually, FIRST staff has confirmed that it's a FIRST logo.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/First-...84063051616518
__________________
Libby Kamen
Team 1923: The MidKnight Inventors
2006-2009: Founder, Captain, Operator, Regional Champion.
2010-Always: Proud Alumni, Mentor & Drive Coach. 2015 Woodie Flowers Finalist Award.

-
229: Division By Zero / 4124: Integration by Parts
2010-2013: Clarkson University Mentor for FLL, FTC & FRC

-
FIRST Partner Associate, United Therapeutics
#TeamUnither | facebook, twitter & instagram | @unitherFIRST

-
questions? comments? concerns? | twitter: @libbyk | about.me/libbykamen
Reply With Quote
  #188   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:48
XaulZan11's Avatar
XaulZan11 XaulZan11 is offline
Registered User
AKA: John Christiansen
FRC #1732
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Milwaukee, Wi
Posts: 1,329
XaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond reputeXaulZan11 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to XaulZan11
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Libby K View Post
Actually, FIRST staff has confirmed that it's a FIRST logo.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/First-...84063051616518
So FIRST recieved confirmation from Will.i.am that it is the logo or is the FIRST staff just thinking it is the FIRST logo?
Reply With Quote
  #189   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:51
Alivia's Avatar
Alivia Alivia is offline
Every moment is a Kodak one.
FRC #0071 (Team Hammond)
Team Role: Photography
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Hammond
Posts: 147
Alivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond reputeAlivia has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Alivia
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

If he DID wear the FIRST logo and/or give a shout out via his lyrics, that's pretty cool.

If he didn't, I'm not quite getting what the big deal is.

I'm too busy thinking about ways that MY team can spread the word of FIRST than waiting for someone else to do it, I guess.

Besides...two weeks ( ) til ship doesn't leave much time for worrying about such things!!
__________________
2004-2007 AND 2011-PRESENT: Team Hammond #71
2007-2011
Team 1720/PhyXTGears


To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe. -Anatole France

Last edited by Alivia : 06-02-2011 at 22:57.
Reply With Quote
  #190   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:54
Trent B Trent B is offline
College Mentor
AKA: Trent Borman
no team (Surviving Grad School)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Ames, IA
Posts: 479
Trent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Trent B Send a message via Yahoo to Trent B
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Additionally he never made a promise, people just made false assumptions and held him to it.

It is done and over with, it is best to move on rather than dwell in the past.
__________________
Former 2502 (Talon) Captain and 3928 (Neutrino) Mentor, currently teamless and attending Penn State for graduate school.
Have questions about Iowa State University or Penn State University? Feel free to email or PM me
Reply With Quote
  #191   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:57
Joe G.'s Avatar
Joe G. Joe G. is online now
Taking a few years (mostly) off
AKA: Josepher
no team (Formerly 1687, 5400)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 1,451
Joe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond reputeJoe G. has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Joe G.
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm actually glad that they didn't get up there and make a blatant "FIRST is cool, go check it out" statement. Why? Because more likely than not, it would have backfired. The purpose of the half-time show, and in fact the entire Superbowl, is entertainment. Entertainment is what people expect, and the masses would have been dissappointed in anything less, or more, than that. Anything more than entertainment, in the direction that some of you seem to have expected, would have been interpreted as little less than outright product placement. And the fact that we are a fan of the product being placed, or the fact that it's a genuinely good product, doesn't make the action any better...would you have said "oh wow, this is really great!" if he had made a shout-out to Pepsi, or Bridgestone, or any of the products being advertised throughout the game?

I realize that there's a difference between FIRST and a soft drink. But people who do not know about FIRST, do not know this. I guarantee, if he had made a blatant shout-out, the reaction of the masses would have been "Oh wow, Will.I.Am has totally sold out, lets see what dumb organization paid him off." Not the kind of publicity you want.

In this case, subtle is good. This isn't going to change the culture overnight, and it would be unreasonable to expect the superbowl halftime show to do that. Most people won't have noticed a thing. But the few that might have will be curious. Maybe there'll be an interview, news story, or something that'll get a bit more publicity. It won't be revolutionary. But it won't be terrible either.

And besides, the real sign that FIRST is changing the culture is not what Will.I.Am puts on his hats. Its the people who sat around their computers at kickoff, listened to Will.I.Am get introduced, and said things like "Who?" and "Aw, I wanted to hear Dean Kamen speak."

Everyone just remember, we're not a big community, and that's not going to change overnight. But to change it eventually, we have to hang together, and embody the ideals that we work to spread.

.02
__________________
FIRST is not about doing what you can with what you know. It is about doing what you thought impossible, with what you were inspired to become.

2007-2010: Student, FRC 1687, Highlander Robotics
2012-2014: Technical Mentor, FRC 1687, Highlander Robotics
2015-2016: Lead Mentor, FRC 5400, Team WARP
2016-???: Volunteer and freelance mentor-for-hire
Reply With Quote
  #192   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:57
gblake's Avatar
gblake gblake is offline
6th Gear Developer; Mentor
AKA: Blake Ross
no team (6th Gear)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2006
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,939
gblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond reputegblake has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

I suppose I can see some blurry Red, White and Blue splotches in the pictures folks have posted - But I think I have seen clearer pictures of Big Foot.

I look forward to some confirmation (web site articles, tweets, facebook updates) from the artists - That would be pretty interesting.

Please remember that non-FIRST folks (like the entire rest of my family) might not have detected anything noteworthy (about FIRST/STEM/Robotics) at all during the performance.

Anyone (who isn't a Black-Eyed Pea) needs to tread lightly when/if trying to create some buzz using tonight's performance.

Blake
__________________
Blake Ross, For emailing me, in the verizon.net domain, I am blake
VRC Team Mentor, FTC volunteer, 5th Gear Developer, Husband, Father, Triangle Fraternity Alumnus (ky 76), U Ky BSEE, Tau Beta Pi, Eta Kappa Nu, Kentucky Colonel
Words/phrases I avoid: basis, mitigate, leveraging, transitioning, impact (instead of affect/effect), facilitate, programmatic, problematic, issue (instead of problem), latency (instead of delay), dependency (instead of prerequisite), connectivity, usage & utilize (instead of use), downed, functionality, functional, power on, descore, alumni (instead of alumnus/alumna), the enterprise, methodology, nomenclature, form factor (instead of size or shape), competency, modality, provided(with), provision(ing), irregardless/irrespective, signage, colorized, pulsating, ideate
Reply With Quote
  #193   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 22:58
alectronic alectronic is offline
Registered User
no team (Volunteer)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Nevada
Posts: 342
alectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant futurealectronic has a brilliant future
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

I got a pretty good screen shot of it from the show!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ss.jpg
Views:	259
Size:	91.9 KB
ID:	10013  
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #194   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 23:02
Trent B Trent B is offline
College Mentor
AKA: Trent Borman
no team (Surviving Grad School)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Ames, IA
Posts: 479
Trent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to beholdTrent B is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Trent B Send a message via Yahoo to Trent B
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe G. View Post
Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm actually glad that they didn't get up there and make a blatant "FIRST is cool, go check it out" statement. Why? Because more likely than not, it would have backfired. The purpose of the half-time show, and in fact the entire Superbowl, is entertainment. Entertainment is what people expect, and the masses would have been dissappointed in anything less, or more, than that. Anything more than entertainment, in the direction that some of you seem to have expected, would have been interpreted as little less than outright product placement.
You are very right, it would more likely than not create a preconceived notion that FIRST is some organization that buys out celebrities to promote them, probably not the best image for FIRST in my mind.

I personally wasn't expecting anything blatant. I was expecting a subtle mention if anything because I am sure the NFL, like the consumers, wouldn't appreciate a shameless plug for another organization, that often butts heads with sports on a team level, in the middle of their most prestigious program.
__________________
Former 2502 (Talon) Captain and 3928 (Neutrino) Mentor, currently teamless and attending Penn State for graduate school.
Have questions about Iowa State University or Penn State University? Feel free to email or PM me
Reply With Quote
  #195   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 06-02-2011, 23:03
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
Joining the 900 Meme Team
FRC #0079
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Misplaced Michigander
Posts: 4,065
Andrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond reputeAndrew Schreiber has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Superbowl + will.i.am + FRC hat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent B View Post
It is done and over with, it is best to move on rather than dwell in the past.
Final question on this topic: Why do we give a care if some "artist" wants to wear a hat that no one would know anything about during some performance of a sport only watched in one country. Why do we care about recognition from someone who doesn't seem to care enough to not use drug slang as an adjective when talking to high schoolers? Doesn't seem like a good role model.

Maybe I'm just irked that our president took a back seat to this guy. Maybe I'm just not "dope". Heck, maybe I'm just plain out un-hip. I think there are much better advocates out there. I'm sure there are dozens of athletes who would endorse FIRST. Dozens who can communicate effectively and know the value of teamwork and putting in effort.

You want publicity in the Super Bowl? Buy an ad. Don't get mad when people won't do things for you for free.
__________________




.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:37.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi