Building a claw post-ship

[MrForbes]

Do you have a plan for controlling the claw? If you're adding another motor or other device to actuate it, do you think you can make it work quickly enough at the regional to be able to practice using your robot? Same with programming...sure, you can work on code without the electronics installed on the robot, but how will you make it work right once you put it all back together? Unless you have another whole robot to test the code with between ship and comp, you'll probably end up making it worse.

You might be better off finishing the robot as well as you can, and spend a few days practicing using it, and fixing any bugs you find in the code, and maybe getting it to do something in autonomous.

[somenerd]

Originally Posted by squirrel

Do you have a plan for controlling the claw? If you're adding another motor or other device to actuate it, do you think you can make it work quickly enough at the regional to be able to practice using your robot? Same with programming...sure, you can work on code without the electronics installed on the robot, but how will you make it work right once you put it all back together? Unless you have another whole robot to test the code with between ship and comp, you'll probably end up making it worse.

You might be better off finishing the robot as well as you can, and spend a few days practicing using it, and fixing any bugs you find in the code, and maybe getting it to do something in autonomous.

I'm going to these very same questions to the students working on the claw. They seem have a good grasp on how they wish to go about the mechanism but I do have some reservations.
We can rig up another arm to practice with between ship and the regional. Its not ideal, but I think it would work.
There's not much our programming team can make worse, unless they somehow break TankDrive.
I'm trying to keep my team productive between Feb 22 and March 24. If you have any suggestions, I'm all ears. We will be borrowing a Minibot from a FTC team.

[Chris is me]

Let 'em do it. If the kids want to put in the extra effort of continuous improvement, you should encourage it.

[MrForbes]

I find that a few weeks of catching up on homework (and sleep) is a good way to fill the time between ship and competition.

Oh....sorting out the extra parts....what you want to take, what you want to leave behind. Getting tools organized. Figuring out how to do scouting.

There are lots of things to do.

[Hawiian Cadder]

I think that might be pushing the "upgrade" section of the rules, our rule of thumb is that if it adds any electronics or coding then it is questionable, we are using the withholding allowance for some better wheels, possibly an upgraded roller for our grabber, but not much else.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Hawiian Cadder

I think that might be pushing the "upgrade" section of the rules, our rule of thumb is that if it adds any electronics or coding then it is questionable,

By no means is it pushing any rules - it is explicitly permitted.

[Akash Rastogi]

It is allowed and encouraged. Have your team run with it.

[Dustin Shadbolt]

We might do the same. If the kids want to, I would let them do it.

There is nothing against the rules about doing this btw. If anything, it might be encouraged. It shows that the kids can improve on designs and pick out key parts of a design.

[Hawiian Cadder]

agreed, but the point of first is to build a robot in 6 weeks. building a robot and a lift, but not having a claw, is not a robot, it is 2/3 of a robot. i would make sure to have something on the robot, it sounds to me like you plan to simply bring your completed claw, the Manuel says "replacements or upgrades" if it is added without replacing anything then it does not fall into that category.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Hawiian Cadder

agreed, but the point of first is to build a robot in 6 weeks. building a robot and a lift, but not having a claw, is not a robot, it is 2/3 of a robot. i would make sure to have something on the robot, it sounds to me like you plan to simply bring your completed claw, the Manuel says "replacements or upgrades" if it is added without replacing anything then it does not fall into that category.

Go back and re-read the definition of Upgrade Parts. Especially this portion of the definition: "intended to provide additional functionality not currently available on the ROBOT."

I could, if I wanted to, and I was able to do it in under 30 lbs, ship a box-bot, build an arm and a deployment system for it, bring both of those to the event, bolt them on, and I'm legal in terms of build time. Other rules... well, that's what inspection is for.

Al, where did that note of yours come from? I don't remember seeing it in the Manual for this year. Under <R24>, I could manufacture a complete competition system in my shop if I wanted to, unless there's another rule that says otherwise.

[Hawiian Cadder]

Originally Posted by EricH

Go back and re-read the definition of Upgrade Parts. Especially this portion of the definition: "intended to provide additional functionality not currently available on the ROBOT."

I could, if I wanted to, and I was able to do it in under 30 lbs, ship a box-bot, build an arm and a deployment system for it, bring both of those to the event, bolt them on, and I'm legal in terms of build time. Other rules... well, that's what inspection is for.

Al, where did that note of yours come from? I don't remember seeing it in the Manual for this year. Under <R24>, I could manufacture a complete competition system in my shop if I wanted to, unless there's another rule that says otherwise.

i don't believe that a whole arm is an upgrade so much as an addition. i think what they mean by additional functionality would be
a rolling claw vs a clamping claw, or shifters vs single speeds, not a manipulator vs nothing.

[ttakashima]

Last year the team I mentor brought in the lifting sub-system for the robot at the Hawaii regional and another team built a lifting system before their first regional.

Last year we had ~60 lbs we could keep from shipping, I do not see a difference from last year to this year for the with-holding allowance except for the amount.

I see a claw upgrade, not as a subsystem upgrade, but a host-bot upgrade.

<R24> During the period between ship date and the competitions, all teams may manufacture SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE PARTS, and develop software for their ROBOT at their home facility. Teams may continue development of any items retained under the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE during this period, and then bring them to the competition events


<R33> Teams may bring a maximum of 30 pounds of custom FABRICATED ITEMS (SPARE PARTS, REPLACEMENT PARTS, and UPGRADE PARTS, plus all WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE items) to each competition event to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT at the competition site. All other FABRICATED ITEMS to be used on the ROBOT during the competition shall arrive at the competition venue packed in the shipping crate or lockout bag with the ROBOT

emphasis mine*

Nowhere does it say that you need to be upgrading a particular subsystem such as a claw.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Eric,
Which note are referring to? The sentence immediately following R24 is cut and paste from the manual. The 'please note' is mine. when the manual speaks to upgrade parts I believe it is referring to your decision to beef up a part on a mechanism you designed and built prior to ship but now have second thoughts about.
This also follows R24...
The primary intent of this rule is to allow teams to withhold the ROBOT control system, the OPERATOR CONSOLE, and selected relevant subsystems and access them after the shipping deadline. This will allow teams to have the maximum time possible prior to each competition event to develop and complete the software for their ROBOT while maximizing the potential capabilities provided by the control system.

Emphasis mine.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Hawiian Cadder

i don't believe that a whole arm is an upgrade so much as an addition. i think what they mean by additional functionality would be
a rolling claw vs a clamping claw, or shifters vs single speeds, not a manipulator vs nothing.

As someone who is actually withholding my entire arm (since I am lazy and don't want to build yet another arm) I can safely say that this behavior has been the norm for years and is in no way un-gp or "questionable". If you don't like it fine, doesn't mean you have the right to say others can't do it.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Just so that everyone is on the same page here.

WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE – a limited amount of FABRICATED ITEMS that are withheld from the shipping requirements (specified in the 2011 FRC Administrative Manual, Section 5) and retained by the team following the shipping deadlines.

And...

<R24> During the period between ship date and the competitions, all teams may manufacture SPARE, REPLACEMENT, and UPGRADE PARTS, and develop software for their ROBOT at their home facility.
Teams may continue development of any items retained under the WITHHOLDING ALLOWANCE during this period, and then bring them to the competition events.

Please note: This is a reference to items fabricated by your team prior to ship. While you may prototype and plan items for use on your robot, fabrication may take place only at events after the ship date. If in doubt, please ask the Q&A or First for verification.