Will this year's game be a war of attrition?

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by martin417

As I look at posted robot pictures, I begin to worry about robot longevity this year. The parts provided in the KOP, if used as-is, will produce a ~16 FPS robot.

If the robot weighs 120lbs, even with 4 CIMs it likely won't have nearly enough room to accelerate to anything approaching that speed.

[Chexposito]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

If the robot weighs 120lbs, even with 4 CIMs it likely won't have nearly enough room to accelerate to anything approaching that speed.

teams aquire this speed relatively easily and quickly, we did this with the additional weight of the bumpers and minibot. we did this speed with a 150 lb robot in like week 2 in less than 20 feet...

[martin417]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

If the robot weighs 120lbs, even with 4 CIMs it likely won't have nearly enough room to accelerate to anything approaching that speed.

The field is ~50 feet long. With a two-speed transmission, coming from the feeder station with a full head of steam, I expect a well made robot to be approaching that speed by midfield. One strategy to avoid defense is speed. if a robot comes screaming out of its lane, heading towards the home zone at ~16 FPS, any robot that gets in the way does so at its own peril. And don't assume 120 LB.s The robot weighs in at 120, the battery 10, the bumpers another 20, and up to 15 for the minibot gives a max weight of 165 Lb. or 75 Kg. At 15 FPS (4.6 M/s), you will have 616 ft-lb (835 N-M) of energy, all dissipated in milliseconds. Even if you don't have anything outside your frame perimeter, that is a lot of energy to absorb without damage.

[Vikesrock]

Absolutely, robots with shifters can certainly reach 15-16 FPS. My point was that the KOP bot will not if it weighs anywhere near 120 without battery bumpers and minibot.

If I did the math right the KOP setup (at 148lbs total) will take over 100 ft. to accelerate to top speed. Adding an additional pair of CIMs still puts it at over 60ft. to reach its top speed.

[Matt C]

"Back in the day, we didn't have those weenie bumpers!"

[JohnBoucher]

Originally Posted by Matt C

"Back in the day, we didn't have those weenie bumpers!"

Yea.... When Robots were Robots. Metal against Metal. Puts a big smile on my face also

[gren737]

Originally Posted by JohnBoucher

Yea.... When Robots were Robots. Metal against Metal. Puts a big smile on my face also

count me in this camp!!

Part of the process is designing a robust robot...always has been. First seemed to work quite successfully without bumpers for many years...I would personally love to see it go back (or at least give teams the option of with or without)

[sdcantrell56]

The ideas in this thread are the exact ideas that lead us to build a trooper that will only be extended out for the 1 second or so that were actually acquiring a tube. After that its well inside the frame perimeter as is the tube. Should be fun seeing who built anticipating the large impacts.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56

Should be fun seeing who built anticipating the large impacts.

This used to be such a HUGE part of FIRST back before bumpers. It's been discussed a hundred times already, but the "robustness" category has slipped further and further down the priority list for many teams because of the addition of bumpers.

Obviously this isn't a terrible thing, its just funny how we're sitting here discussing today how ground loading isn't smart because your appendage might get hit (most likely by a bumper). Back in the day, you kinda had to assume everything you built would be whacked, hooked, grabbed or whatever else it may be!

-Brando

[Koko Ed]

2008 was a war of attrition for both the robots and the field.
By the end of the off seasons the field was barely able to hold together after so many competitions with robots slamming full speed into the sides so hard.

[Tom Line]

I suspect that BB (before bumpers) taught people basic robustness practices much more quickly than our somewhat toned-down game we have now.

Every year I see dozens of robots that make me shake my head. No strain relief on the wires (and there should be strain relief of some sort on EVERY wire). Sensors and other fragile components out where they can be easily ripped off or destroyed. Uncovered motor tabs on FP's.

For instance, this year, you already know you're going to see dozens of banebots motors on the arms with their motor tabs exposed for all the word to bash at (and short out). Likewise with the multitude of forklift style bots, you're going to see a ton of loose wire flying about just asking to get yanked.

That still doesn't make me want to return to the no-bumper bots of yesteryear though.

[ChrisH]

I belive the addition of bumpers has nothing to do with protecting robots. It has more to do with protecting the field from the robots. Certain areas of every field take a lot of damage from robots. In 2008 there were some field parts that had to be re-welded repeatedly.

Not that I personally would mind going back to metal on metal

ChrisH

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

For instance, this year, you already know you're going to see dozens of banebots motors on the arms with their motor tabs exposed for all the word to bash at (and short out).

That's what pipe benders are for

[pfreivald]

Spare parts are your friend -- but so is a robot designed to tuck in unless it doesn't have to!

[Brandon Holley]

Regarding picking up from the floor:

Maybe in midfield it's a risky proposition, but picking up tubes in your scoring zone or human player lanes seems like a no brainer to me. You're protected from being touched in those areas.

-Brando