LogoMotion Learnings from Scrimmages

[Mr MOE]

Great comments everyone! Keep 'em coming!

-J-

[Andy Grady]

Hello everyone,

Most gameplay points that I saw have already been made by others, though I don't think you need to push a tube against a wall to pick it up. Roller claws seemed to deal with floor pickup very well.

A couple of pointers for your first week event...

1. Get your minibots secure. Many times teams were penalized because minibots were just falling off of robots under normal robot movements. Even worse, sometimes those minibots were hit by big robots...not a good thing.

2. Make sure all your software, firmware, etc. are up to date. Most of the delays yesterday came as a result of teams not updating to the most recent software updates. If you do this, you will raise your chances of not missing your first practice round on thursday.

3. Always come to the field with a full battery. Battery voltage dips heavily as more load is placed on it. The C-Rio will reboot if battery voltage gets too low. Make sure you are always equipped with a battery that has ample voltage checked by meter (slightly over 13 volts or more is a good guideline)

4. Know the rules. Many teams were getting penalized needlessly because they were doing things that were just puzzling.


These are just a few things that will make life easier on you, and on the FTA's and staff on competition day.

Good luck to everyone!

[Peter Matteson]

Be conscious of how inflation level of tube effects your manipulator. At Suffield the tubes were inflated to a level I didn't think was possible without popping them. Thankfully we built in adjustability, but I think a lot of teams may be in trouble.

[MrForbes]

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

Also, ground-pickup is near impossible unless you are picking from at the wall.

I expect the problem is that most manipulators are designed to pick up from the robot side of the tube, and instead of grabbing it, they push the tube away from themselves. Ours picks up from the center, we run into the tube, drop the manipulator into the middle, and lift it up. We made the other type of claw in 2007 and had the same problems you witnessed.

[MarcD79]

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

Smart feeders are a must.

Also, ground-pickup is near impossible unless you are picking from at the wall.

It is possible. Here at Suffield Shakedwon, there were a variety of robots, including team 176. 176 just slid their arm slightly from the side & clamped down They didn't need an immobile object to push against.

[MarcD79]

Originally Posted by Peter Matteson

Be conscious of how inflation level of tube effects your manipulator. At Suffield the tubes were inflated to a level I didn't think was possible without popping them. Thankfully we built in adjustability, but I think a lot of teams may be in trouble.

All tubes at Suffield were inflated to FIRST specs. I think what happened to teams is they didn't inflate using the official template for inflation.

[AcesJames]

Observations @ Suffield

1. There wasn't much defense, even in eliminations. Moreover, it was just traffic of robots clogged in the center of the field looking for tubes. Teams were too pre-occupied with filling their own racks that defense seemed time consuming and impractical.

2. Tubes were extremely inflated, to the point that some teams' grippers didn't open enough to actually wrap around the tube wall, and instead just pushed the tube around.

3. Mini bots fell of their robots, a lot.

4. Mini bots decided the round, every round they were actually deployed.

5. Coordinating when each of the 3 robots is at the feeder station, and when each is at the rack is tough, and miscommunication leads to huge slowdowns and incomplete logos.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by MarcD79

All tubes at Suffield were inflated to FIRST specs. I think what happened to teams is they didn't inflate using the official template for inflation.

This picture seems to disagree:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36416?

The middle triangle is clearly way too big if all the other tubes in the picture are inflated to spec. The top square is likely overinflated as well.

[GaryVoshol]

What specs were violated?

2.2.9 GAME PIECES
While playing LogoMotion, HOSTBOTS manipulate GAME PIECES to accomplish the objectives of the game. Each GAME PIECE is an inflatable object constructed of 0.3 mm thick vinyl. The body of each GAME PIECE has a tubular cross-section, nominally between 7 and 8 inches in diameter at their narrowest. The GAME PIECES are inflated to nominal size, not a specific pressure.
2.2.9.1 LOGO PIECES
During the majority of the MATCH, the HOSTBOTS manipulate GAME PIECES that are constructed in one of three shapes: a TRIANGLE, a CIRCLE or a SQUARE. The exterior dimensions of the GAME PIECES range between 25 inches (from side to side of the SQUARE) to 30 inches (from corner to corner of the TRIANGLE). The central opening in each GAME PIECE ranges between 9-1/2 inches (for the TRIANGLE) to 12 inches (for the CIRCLE and SQUARE) across. The TRIANGLE GAME PIECES are colored red, the CIRCLES are white, and the SQUARES are blue.

(emphasis mine)

Especially note the nominal dimension for thickness is a minimum, not a maximum.

[kborer22]

1. Top row is king. It takes just as much effort to score on the top as it does on the middle row.

2. Know your opponent and pick you strategy wisely. For example at suffield a team would score an ubertube on the middle row during auto. That alliances' default move from there was to complete a logo on that middle row. In the mean time the opposing alliance was completing a logo on the top row. The team that scores on the top won every time, of at least what i remember.

3. There will be a lot more scoring in auto than in past years. There were several teams at the scrimmage that were scoring, or almost scoring (125 included, 3 times we placed the tube over the peg, but didn't release). I think the combination of previous experience with tubes (2007) and the fact that the pegs are fixed will make for more auto scoring that most people are used to.

4. Mini bots are game changers.

5. The field seems smaller than i expected. Lots of robots and tubes in the middle make for tons of congestion.

6 Extremely difficult to see/align tubes from across the field.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

What specs were violated?
(emphasis mine)

Especially note the nominal dimension for thickness is a minimum, not a maximum.

I read that to mean that the narrowest part (ie. the middle of a triangle edge) of a properly inflated tube should be between 7 and 8 inches, I certainly could be wrong though. If that triangle didn't even fit through the feeding slot as was reported don't you think it may have been on the large side?

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

I read that to mean that the narrowest part (ie. the middle of a triangle edge) of a properly inflated tube should be between 7 and 8 inches, I certainly could be wrong though. If that triangle didn't even fit through the feeding slot as was reported don't you think it may have been on the large side?

If the narrowest portion was 7-8", the widest portion could be more than 10" (the height of the slot).

It would have been larger than most tubes, but without measurement of the narrow section, we wouldn't know if it was out of spec.

[MarcD79]

As the rules state, the tube is measured at the smallest section & can be between 7-8 inches. We had the official "C" shaped template that slid over the tube as you inflate them. When the tube was inflated to make contact with the template, the inflation was completed. If the corners (triangle tube) appeared to be larger than the sides, that was considered acceptable.

[zebrabots]

So here is my question. From what you guys saw at the practice rounds, what would make a good defensive robot? Such as small and nimble to move fast or large and bulky to block arms and things? Or what other characteristics would you find on a great defensive robot?

[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by zebrabots

So here is my question. From what you guys saw at the practice rounds, what would make a good defensive robot? Such as small and nimble to move fast or large and bulky to block arms and things? Or what other characteristics would you find on a great defensive robot?

I would think that a fast robot that can throw around its weight would be the most annoying. It's hard to play defense in this game, but it's possible to pester many robots so that it's harder to pick up tubes and even drive straight.

Also, a defensive robot that doesn't get penalized is key. There are very strict penalties for overaggressive defense.