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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-02-2011, 21:52
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

I see now how you interpret it. Thanks for the explanation.

The deployment line makes a horizontal plane, even if that plane is not explicitly mentioned in the rules.

You can try your luck....please let us know how it works out!
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Unread 20-02-2011, 22:36
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
Perhaps the refs or inspectors can ask you to demonstrate that the MINIBOT is entirely below the horizontal plane after DEPLOYMENT...that should be possible before/after a match?

I'd like to see the alternative interpretation, how does it work?
Alternative interpretation...
(I wrote this over the past hour while I was watching television and did not see Bruceb post which made basically the same argument)

Defined terms in the rules:

DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference. DEPLOYMENT ends when the HOSTBOT is no longer in contact with the MINIBOT. (Related form, DEPLOY, verb)

DEPLOYMENT LINE – located on the POST, approximately 18 inches above the top surface of the BASE.

No where in the manual does it define a cylinder of extending from the deployment line.

Elsewhere in the manual, it describes cylinders for violations but not for this case.

My copy of the rules from Jan11 did not have this form of deployment as a violation. This violation was added in Update #2. The GDC decided to change <G21> instead of just changing <G22>.
(They also did not add a cylinder explanation for this changed rule).

The spirit of the rule is the minibots need always remain completely below the deployment line while in contact with both the hostbot and the pole.
And that, at first contact with the pole, the minibot must be completely below the deployment line.

Do you really think the GDC specifically wanted to preclude this type of deployment? I think it is just that it was they just used the fewest words to to make up for their omission that the minibot needed to start completely below the deployment line. Maybe they were concerned about minibots very close to the pole and still above the deployment line and the potential difficulty it would cause to referees making a ruling.

BTW, my team doesn't violate this rule: we move our minibot horizontally.

There are at least a couple good lessons here:
1) Read the rules and the updates AND all the GDC Q&A
2) Post your progress here on CD and get good advice BEFORE you get officially inspected and get surprised

Writing requirements and manuals is usually a thankless job. The GDC does an excellent job. Bruceb and team have days to create an alternative deployment if Q&A does not work for them.

It's really nice that everyone is willing to be helpful.
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Unread 21-02-2011, 15:47
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Here is the link to the GDC ruling on Jan 14th.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=16251

Question:
The definition of Deployment states that DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference, and ends when the HOSTBOT is no longer in contact with the MINIBOT.

G21 states HOSTBOTS may only DEPLOY MINIBOTS onto their ALLIANCE‟S TOWERS and entirely below the DEPLOYMENT LINE.

May the MINIBOT be above the plane of the deployment line after the start of deployment, provided the MINIBOT and HOSTBOT are below the plane of the deployment line at the end of deployment and no other rules are violated (i.e., touching the post)?

In other words, does the deployment line create a plane that cannot be exceed by the MINIBOT from the start of deployment until the end of deployment?

GDC Answer:
No.
Yes.
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  #19   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-02-2011, 20:48
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Alright alright. We spend 4 hours today to basically invert our deployment mechanism. It now swings from the top and the minibot NEVER is over 30 inches from the floor.
Video to follow.
Bruce
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Unread 28-02-2011, 22:25
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Finally got a video of our initial test of our new deployment system.
It's a lot faster now but you get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NshePgWQORM

I think this is a legal configuration. The mini is never above th 30 inch line.
Bruce
btw thanks for the feedback on the other deployment system.
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  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-03-2011, 15:57
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Any comments on this?
Bruce
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Unread 02-03-2011, 16:03
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Looks like you are good now.
  #23   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-03-2011, 16:42
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomergeek View Post
Defined terms in the rules:

DEPLOYMENT – the act of positioning a MINIBOT on a TOWER. DEPLOYMENT starts when the MINIBOT breaks the vertical projection of the TOWER BASE circumference.


No where in the manual does it define a cylinder of extending from the deployment line.

.
The base cylinder is 12" from the floor. If you extend the "vertical projections of the TOWER BASE circumference" you get a cylinder.
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  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-03-2011, 17:28
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

And your point is?
Bruce
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Unread 02-03-2011, 17:34
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruceb View Post
Finally got a video of our initial test of our new deployment system.
It's a lot faster now but you get the idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NshePgWQORM

I think this is a legal configuration. The mini is never above th 30 inch line.
Bruce
btw thanks for the feedback on the other deployment system.
How did you guys get your minibot to not fall down the pole after it hits the top? Are bot can get to the top, but coming down is not so pretty

David
  #26   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-03-2011, 20:13
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

When it hits the top it triggers a standard 3 way switch that shorts the motor poles and turns off the power.

Bruce
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Unread 05-04-2011, 14:24
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

My team is having a difference in understanding of how close the minibot can be positioned prior to the 10 second deployment period. Our previous understanding was that the minibot had to be outside the vertical plane of the tower base until the 10 second mark. But it appears that teams at some regionals are positioning the minibot inside the vertical plane but not quite touching the pole until the 10 second mark.

Can someone clarify for me, where the minibot and hostbot can be during the last 15-10 seconds of the game?

Thanks,
--Al
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Unread 05-04-2011, 14:30
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlDee View Post
My team is having a difference in understanding of how close the minibot can be positioned prior to the 10 second deployment period. Our previous understanding was that the minibot had to be outside the vertical plane of the tower base until the 10 second mark. But it appears that teams at some regionals are positioning the minibot inside the vertical plane but not quite touching the pole until the 10 second mark.

Can someone clarify for me, where the minibot and hostbot can be during the last 15-10 seconds of the game?

Thanks,
--Al
Good luck with that. We had ref's saying you could not touch/break that cylinder plane at kettering, and NO bot could touch you once you were in the act of deploying.

However at A2 they would allow crossing the cylinder plane during the yellow lighted time AND a robot could slam into you during this period of time with no penalty.

So I suggest asking for clarification at your next drivers meeting. We will be asking at the the Michigan State Championships this week on how they will rule on this.

Come on First let's be consistent.

R3P0
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Unread 05-04-2011, 14:37
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Quote:
Originally Posted by R3P0 View Post
Good luck with that. We had ref's saying you could not touch/break that cylinder plane at kettering, and NO bot could touch you once you were in the act of deploying.

However at A2 they would allow crossing the cylinder plane during the yellow lighted time AND a robot could slam into you during this period of time with no penalty.

So I suggest asking for clarification at your next drivers meeting. We will be asking at the the Michigan State Championships this week on how they will rule on this.

Come on First let's be consistent.

R3P0
If I am interpreting the rules correctly you are allowed to go over the edge of the base anytime in the match as long as you are not deploying or interacting with the tower in a way that wouldn't be defined as pushing or reacting against it. Deployment starts when the minibot moves over. End-game is the last 10 seconds of the match. The protection does not go in effect until that time.
  #30   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-04-2011, 14:40
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Re: 706 deploying minibot

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiChau View Post
If I am interpreting the rules correctly you are allowed to go over the edge of the base anytime in the match as long as you are not deploying or interacting with the tower in a way that wouldn't be defined as pushing or reacting against it. Deployment starts when the minibot moves over. End-game is the last 10 seconds of the match. The protection does not go in effect until that time.
This is correct.

The HOSTBOT can break the plane WHENEVER it wants to. As long as the MINIBOT does NOT break the plane, until the last 10 seconds.
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