Here's something interesting...

[Nate Smith]

From: http://www.innovationfirst.com/FIRST...RC_Default.bsx (EduRobot Default Code)

'---------- Aliases for the Pbasic Mode Byte (PB_mode) -----------------------------------------------
'  Bit 7 of the PB_mode byte (aliased as comp_mode below) indicates the status
'  of the Competition Control, either Enabled or Disabled.  This indicates the
'  starting and stopping of rounds at the competitions.
'  Comp_mode is indicated by a solid "Disabled" LED on the Operator Interface.
'  Comp_mode = 1 for Enabled, 0 for Disabled.
'
'  Bit 6 of the PB_mode byte (aliased as auton_mode below) indicates the status
'  of the Autonomous Mode, either Autonomous or Normal.  This indicates when
'  the robot must run on its own programming.  When in Autonomous Mode, all
'  OI analog inputs are set to 127 and all OI switch inputs are set to 0 (zero).
'  Auton_mode is indicated by a blinking "Disabled" LED on the Operator Interface.
'  Auton_mode = 1 for Autonomous, 0 for Normal.
'
'  Autonomous Mode can be turned ON by setting the RC to Team 0 (zero).
'
'  Bit 5 of the PB_mode byte (aliased as user_display_mode below) indicates when
'  the user selects the "User Mode" on the OI.  PB_mode.bit5 is set to 1 in "User Mode".
'  When the user selects channel, team number, or voltage, PB_mode.bit5 is set to 0
'  When in "User Mode", the eight Robot Feedback LED are turned OFF.
'  Note: "User Mode" is identified by the letter u in the left digit (for 4 digit OI's)
'  Note: "User Mode" is identified by decimal places on the right two digits (for 3 digit OI's)

comp_mode		VAR PB_mode.bit7
auton_mode		VAR PB_mode.bit6
user_display_mode	                VAR PB_mode.bit5

Veeerrrryyy interesting...if this carries over to the full size RC at all, it appears we now have the ability to send a 3 digit(1 byte?) number to the OI display, as well as that the system has the ability to go into "autonomous mode," which locks out all driver inputs....hinting at the game, perhaps? Or maybe completely unrelated...

[rbayer]

Definately interesting.

Since the botht the eduRobot and the full-size RC use the same OI, I'd guess that the functionality of user-mode display will still be there. The autonomous part is what really interests me though....

[Ian W.]

gah! the programmers will have something to do this year! yay!

now, just to figure out how to make the robot 'dance' on it's own...

[DanL]

Well isn't this essentially what we asked for in that big "Suggestions for the 2003 game" thread a while back? <insert link to appropriate thread here had I have been able to immidiately find the correct one>

I for one am looking forward to it.

[Adam Y.]

Just a question but do you mean you guys couldn't have programmed a completely autonomous robot until now using the ifi system???

[Ian W.]

we could have. infact, the programming aspect will be nothing different this year than last year (i'm assuming autnomy will be mandated), except now me and dan will need to add an "Autonomous Code" section, which is flipped on or off by a digital input. If I wanted, I could have done that this year, but i never had time, so i never bothered. it may pay to start trying some stuff though...

[srawls]

Just a question but do you mean you guys couldn't have programmed a completely autonomous robot until now using the ifi system???

No, we could have done it before, and it will be no easier to do it now. The importance of this revalation is that now we might HAVE TO program a completely autonomous robot (at least for a portion of the match).

Stephen

[Jnadke]

Originally posted by wysiswyg
Just a question but do you mean you guys couldn't have programmed a completely autonomous robot until now using the ifi system???

It was possible before, it just wasn't mandated.

There are a lot of variables needed to be known in programming an autonomous robot. One of the more helpful variables is time. The robot contoller has no reliable method of telling time, or difference of time, except that data is sent at minimum every 25ms. Sometimes it may take longer depending on the size and complexity of the code. Basically this means that 25ms or more passes between looping the execution.

Another variable is position. The need for this can vary based on the game. With the parts available from last years game, you could tell the position of the robot in relation to something else with the IR sensors. You could also tell the changing vertical angle of the robot with the gyro (up a ramp or down a ramp). You could also buy $100 parts and make some useful tools such as: a tachometer, a directional compass, acceleration detector, photoelectric distance measuring (up to 1.5m), magnetic material detection, and proximity sensing (including ultrasonic).

However, the parts tended to be rather expensive enough that often times only one of these devices could be built with the materials given. Especially with the tachometer, which would require a separate microprocessor since the included stamp processor is rather imprecise.



If they do mandate automation this year, more gadgetry, or at least a timer, will be needed to do it precisely. Unless they are only concerned with position in relation to other objects.

Sure, the retroreflective tape is nice... but it's not very realistic. I mean, how often does a survivor under 2 tons of rubble have retroreflective tape strapped to their back??? How many rocks on Mars have retroreflective tape on them???

[Andrew]

Re: Autonomy...

Just imagine the havoc of several 130 lb robots with unstable autonomouse controllers careening around a 44'x22' playing field. Yee-Hah!

On a side note, I only discovered recently that the RC is active while in disable mode. It occurs that an autonomous program that just sends the robot forward when the motors are enabled could gain 1-2 seconds before a driver could react. Until last year, I don't think every second counted.

One autonomous task that might be interesting that could be accomplished in a reasonable time would be to follow a line. This is one place where the retroreflective tape and optical sensors could actual work in a competition setting.

Andrew
Team 356

[Brandon Martus]

Originally posted by Andrew
This is one place where the retroreflective tape and optical sensors could actual work in a competition setting.

Maybe thats why they were introduced last year, to get everybody thinking about good ways to use them, test their theories, etc. So instead of being a major player last year, teams would help test for FIRST so they could better design this years game.

Or not... i dunno.

[Ian W.]

Originally posted by Andrew

On a side note, I only discovered recently that the RC is active while in disable mode. It occurs that an autonomous program that just sends the robot forward when the motors are enabled could gain 1-2 seconds before a driver could react. Until last year, I don't think every second counted.

yes, i noticed this too. our robot had a ramping section of code, so the motors wouldn't violently jump around from full forward to full reverse in two tenths of a second (we're a bit cautious ). that meant the robot took maybe a second or so to react sometimes, although i've grown to like the delay, as i feel i can usually drive a little better with it. i did notice though, if i started the match with the joysticks pushed full forward, the robot would fly away at full speed as soon as the match began. very useful information to know .

[Matt Leese]

Originally posted by Ian W.
gah! the programmers will have something to do this year! yay!

now, just to figure out how to make the robot 'dance' on it's own...

Team 211 (Kodak & Marshall High School) made their robot dance back in 2001. They showed it off at the Rochester Scrimage. It was rather neat to see even if it was completely pointless.

Matt

[IVIaxor]

It seems to me that FIRST has been moving tword an autonomous competition for a little while. Every year they have been giving us more and more sensors, even if very few people have used them. Maybe this year they are going to force us to use them.

[Greg Ross]

As far as I can tell from perusing the EduRobot material, the only way to turn on autonomous mode is to physically set the dip switches on the RC to team number 000. Unless it can also be commanded by the competition port, I don't see how autonomous mode can be required for part of the game.

Maybe the game will allow some teams to choose to fill an autonomous robot role. I.e. there may be some scoring opportunities which are only available to autonomous robots.

[Adam Y.]

Was the retroflective tape sensors that sensor with the red sheilding on it??