How Will Logomotion Play Out and Develop?

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

I personally think that the offending robot would get the penalties, if there were to be any. (or at least in my interpretations of strategy). Now the robot DOING the ramming is getting the penalty I presume. What if my strategy just consists of getting in the way, driving perpendicular of the offending robot' velocity. Now work is not done by the defending robot in the collision, the offending bot is. Essentially it is a t bone crash.

Robot contact has nothing to do with it... I don't think there are any penalties for such a thing in Logomotion.

The difference is that the offensive robot can move into/out of their lane without penalty, while even incidental incursion by a defensive robot will cause a penalty -- or a RED CARD if they touch the offensive robot. Thus, the defensive robot must be much more careful than the offensive robot, because there are two lanes of ingress/egress permitted to the lane.

[Blackphantom91]

- How much will the average scores increase over the course of the season?
Drastically after week one, especially while in eliminations. by championships they will all be full.

- How effective will defense be?
Depends on the robot being that two robots cant gang up on another changes the game a bit. toward the finale their will be people stopping the great mini-bot.

- Will alliances use feeder bots & hangers, or will it be every team for itself?
a bit of both. This game is teamwork and communication heavy.

- Will tubes be fed through the slot or thrown?
From what ive seen people do thrown but slotted for select shapes.

- What will dominate - Grippers or Roller Claws? Rotating arms or Elevators?
Hard to say at this point im a bit bias to elevators because we have one. although 148 makes me double think it.

- Will floor loading be as important as many think?
Oh yes! wasting time if you have to keep going to slot that's possibly a full logo if fast enough.

- Will the mini-bots define the winners, or will their influence decrease as more teams get them working?
In starting tournaments it will define winners definitely in championships im not quite sure, Great mini-bots can change a game very quickly and can full on close a game out,tie a game or even win.

- How will mini-bots develop? Will they all be similar by Championship?
Similar but I think their will be even better designs at championships as time goes on because of the withheld allowance, Deployment will probably be the key to success by then.

- How would you like to see the game played?
Fast paced, high scoring, jaw droping, tear jerking, Super strategic type of game. ( I think personaly this game will be about teamwork and strategy, thats how tournaments and championships will be one by better critical thinkers.)

[Chris is me]

The key to the game rests in whether or not scrubs throw tubes on the field.

If teams throw tubes willy-nilly, just hoping their own team scores them faster, then the game will play out in a pretty boring "scoring race" fashion that no one wants to watch.

If teams control tube use and don't just throw them aimlessly on the field, the game becomes an intricate dance of tube relays, scoring, occasional defense, and minibot races. I believe an ideal alliance will utilize a good tube passer / feeder every match, with a second robot serving as a combination relay and scorer and a third robot being a pure scorer.

[Michael Corsetto]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

If teams throw tubes willy-nilly, just hoping their own team scores them faster, then the game will play out in a pretty boring "scoring race" fashion that no one wants to watch.

Last time I checked, scoring was cool...

[Zoughtbaj]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

Are you reading the 2010 rules? This year is Win/Loss/Tie. The ranking points are a tiebreaker, making defense a viable strategy this year.

whoa, wait, did I miss something?

yes I did. you're right, QS is a straight forward 0 1 and 2, RS is tie breaking those. Thank you.

I'm still curious if we will see RS making a difference in the top 8-10 positions, or if ties will be somewhat of a rarity. As far as I can tell, the higher that both sides score, the better benefit for both of them.

In any case, it will be exciting to watch some Week 1 regional streams and see how things turn out.

[Justin Montois]

- How much will the average scores increase over the course of the season?
In 2007, even when you didn't have to worry about the other teams taking your tubes, an alliance of three robots struggled to score more then 8 tubes. I don't think you will see much different this year. 8 Tubes, one logo, 2 Uber tubes, factor in minibots, Week 1, 45 Wins you a match, 80+ at Champs.

- How effective will defense be?
Very. One robot, designed to play Defense can shut down an entire alliance. If you see a robot with fold down wings at your regional, watch them closely.

- Will alliances use feeder bots & hangers, or will it be every team for itself?
If a team can't score on the top, i'm telling them to be a feeder. Don't score tubes on the low peg when I can put it up top and triple it's value. Drop it next to me and go get another one. Three top scorers will basically be every team for itself. Anytime that condition doesn't exist, you better hope it turns into a team game.

- Will tubes be fed through the slot or thrown?
Throw out.

- What will dominate - Grippers or Roller Claws? Rotating arms or Elevators?
Elevators and roller claws.

- Will floor loading be as important as many think?
In Quals, Yes. Elims, No.

- Will the mini-bots define the winners, or will their influence decrease as more teams get them working?
Yes, yes, yes. If your minibot wasn't your top priority I hope you found a way to score 2 tubes at once.

- How will mini-bots develop? Will they all be similar by Championship?
Similar. Very, very, similar. Minibots are way too easy to copy.

- How would you like to see the game played?
I love strategy. I would like each match to be played like a high speed chess match. If that means a shutdown defense, or a high octane offense, 2 opposing strategies duking it out is exciting. Nothing is more frustrating to me then when your watching a match and it's painfully obvious the three teams did not talk any sort of strategy at all. Then they walk off the field and wonder why they got smoked.

[pandamonium]

- How much will the average scores increase over the course of the season?
Double week one qual average to get championships qual average

- How effective will defense be?
Not very.

- Will alliances use feeder bots & hangers, or will it be every team for itself?
"If a team can't score on the top, i'm telling them to be a feeder. Don't score tubes on the low peg when I can put it up top and triple it's value."
Totally agree with this!


- Will tubes be fed through the slot or thrown?
BOTH!

- What will dominate - Grippers or Roller Claws? Rotating arms or Elevators?
Elevators and roller claws.

- Will floor loading be as important as many think?
YES, it always is!

- Will the mini-bots define the winners, or will their influence decrease as
Week one yes. BUT there influence will definitely drop off. At some point it becomes about consistency over speed.

- How will mini-bots develop? Will they all be similar by Championship?
Minibots are easy to copy which is one more reason why it is the consistency that will win out. YOU can have a 1/2 second mini bot but if it only works 1/2 of the time how useful is it?

- How would you like to see the game played?
winning alliances will have at least 2 robots that score autonomously. 1 fast minibot and 1 consistent minibot. As well as a team with a well trained drive team.

WHY IS AUTONOMOUS NOT DISCUSSED HERE!!!!
Did I miss an update where they decided to not include it? lol, just kiding.
But seriously I think it is a highly underrated part of this years game.

[thefro526]

How much will the average scores increase over the course of the season?

I would say that Most Matches in week one will end with scores lower than 40. By the end of the season, I'd imagine these will increase to around 60, so 33% or so.

- How effective will defense be?

Defense will define regionals. Week Zero Scrimmages showed us that to defend a robot you have to do nothing more than block the gap between the two towers. Good Offensive machines will need to be prepared to get their hands dirty and escort teams if they want to score.

- Will alliances use feeder bots & hangers, or will it be every team for itself?

Depends on the match, and the quality of teams. If one robot is CLEARLY better at hanging tubes than the rest, I think the rest will be feeders. The issue is that many teams will look at this as a pride issue and not want to feed another robot.

- Will tubes be fed through the slot or thrown?

Good tube throws will win matches, and regionals. Every second you can save in pickup is valuable.

- What will dominate - Grippers or Roller Claws? Rotating arms or Elevators?

It doesn't matter. If it works well, it will do well.

- Will floor loading be as important as many think?

Floor loading gives a team the capability to shorten the distance they HAVE to travel to get a tube, so yes, it will matter.

- Will the minibots define the winners, or will their influence decrease as more teams get them working?

In early regionals, having a minibot that works will be enough to do well. Most match scores will be low enough that winning the race will be enough points to win the match.

- How will minibots develop? Will they all be similar by Championship?

Yes. Once the word gets out, minibots will become more uniform, making their speed up the pole less important than deployment time.

- How would you like to see the game played?

In a way that we win, of course.

[HarveyAce]

As team captain of 3329 and as a part of the drive team, I think that defense wil be extremely important as the season contiinues. This will be a shining attribute for teams without extremely strong manipulators. I know that because of my teams specially engineered chassis, we plan to make full use of it's special qualities and high maneuverability to run tubes and play some hard defense.
As for minibots, important early on, less effective on score later, especially in the elim rounds. it will probably come down to a battle of deployment rather than who has the best bot.

But who really knows...

[Chris is me]

For the teams touting the advantages of defense, where are you going to play it?

Consider a simplified two runners, one scorer strategy. Scorer stays in or near the protected zone. Runners get tubes. Do you defend the runners? Which one? Both?

You can't stop the scoring - the scorer is protected.
You can't stop the running - it's a 2 on 1.

What do you do?

This isn't defense's greatest game.

[pfreivald]

I was thinking the same thing. If the runners coordinate their actions, each can pass out of their general scoring area on the edges of the tower bottleneck. Because robots cannot work together to inhibit the flow of the game, a single robot cannot block both runners.

If you block one, then who do you block on the return trip, the one with the tube or the one going to get the tube?

Defense will slow scoring down to some degree, but I don't think it will be quite as disastrous as people are saying. (I also have this vision in my head of robots passing tubes over dragonflies...)

[Swampdude]

A feeder seems a huge waste of a bot that could play defense. Defense is easy and effective if run like a gate going back and forth just outside the protected zone. When they come out for a tube you hit the tube. If they come out past you, you block them on the way back in. This is where the floor loading becomes a vulnerability, as a risk to the manipulator and a time waster under defense. The defensive bot can clear out thrown tubes, block loading, block entry and block an end run to the poles. The defender is huge. A fast defender and 2 scorers (like 2007) will be the optimum I think. 3 scorers is a crowd on 2 racks.

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

For the teams touting the advantages of defense, where are you going to play it?

Consider a simplified two runners, one scorer strategy. Scorer stays in or near the protected zone. Runners get tubes. Do you defend the runners? Which one? Both?

You can't stop the scoring - the scorer is protected.
You can't stop the running - it's a 2 on 1.

What do you do?

This isn't defense's greatest game.

I agree - and the scorer can venture out to pick up a thrown tube, etc., if their supply runs low making it a 3 on 1 battle. Not to mention the fact that the defender hasn't scored a single tube or fed one to his scorer the whole time.

If there is a defender present, I think an elevator based lift has an advantage over a pivoting arm, since they have an easier time maneuvering and scoring entirely within the protected zone.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by nuggetsyl

- Will the minibots define the winners, or will their influence decrease as more teams get them working?

I think mini bots have way to much power in this years game. I am hoping to be wrong. It will make the end of the game more exciting to watch at the championship finals but IMO really boring in normal rounds because your going to have the haves and have not's.

I just saw this comment, and thought of something.

Since most Week 1 Average Scoring Estimates are around 50 points or below, I wonder if we'll see two Powerhouse teams chose to not score any tubes and just deploy two Sub-Two Second Mini-bots? Now that I think about it, if both teams were to score an Ubertube on the top row and then come in first and second in the mini-bot race, they would win 90% of week one Qualification - if not elimination - matches.

[Swampdude]

Hmmm. So seed 1 (with the fastest minibot at the regional) picks the second fastest minibot and both with consistent ubertube auto scorers. Then 2 play defense the whole match, with 1 scoring, shutting down the other team. Then deploy and win the 30 and 20 point bonuses getting 62 + the tube scores... I like it...