Minibot & Robot Starting Config

[keericks]

Does rule R11 (d) state that the minibot is NOT subject to being inside the robots starting Config/perimeter? In other words if your minibot is mounted on the back ofnthe robot and is overhanging the frame perimeter (just minibot components, not any part of the deployment system) is that legal?

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by keericks

Does rule R11 (d) state that the minibot is NOT subject to being inside the robots starting Config/perimeter? In other words if your minibot is mounted on the back ofnthe robot and is overhanging the frame perimeter (just minibot components, not any part of the deployment system) is that legal?

Kent,

You make an interesting observation. The problem would be that the Minibot is not exempt from <R14>.

Mike

[IndySam]

ROBOT – the composite electromechanical assembly designed and built by a FRC team to perform specific tasks when competing in the 2011 competition LogoMotion. The ROBOT must include all the basic systems required to be an active participant in the game – power, communications, control, mobility, and actuation. The ROBOT implementation must obviously follow a design approach intended to play the 2011 FRC game (e.g. a box of unassembled parts placed on the FIELD, or a ROBOT designed to play a different game, would not satisfy this definition). The ROBOT includes both the HOSTBOT and the MINIBOT (ROBOT = HOSTBOT + MINIBOT).

A minibot is part of the robot by definition and therefore subject to the starting configuration rules.

[keericks]

So as long as the minibot "overhang" doesn't breach the starting configuration volume (our host robot is well under) we should be fine then. In other words, there doesn't seem to be any rulings this year about starting outside frame perimeter ... it's starting within the Starting Config. Volume.

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by keericks

So as long as the minibot "overhang" doesn't breach the starting configuration volume (our host robot is well under) we should be fine then. In other words, there doesn't seem to be any rulings this year about starting outside frame perimeter ... it's starting within the Starting Config. Volume.

"<R14> When a ROBOT is in its STARTING CONFIGURATION, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER. "

[idahorobot]

Originally Posted by TerryS

"<R14> When a ROBOT is in its STARTING CONFIGURATION, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER. "

I see many teams carrying off robots way out of starting configuration the frame perimeter. My understanding is this not correct.

[WileyB-J]

Originally Posted by idahorobot

I see many teams carrying off robots way out of starting configuration the frame perimeter. My understanding is this not correct.

opposite ends of the match sir, the perimeter doesn't matter after the match/starting perimeter is broken.

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by keericks

So as long as the minibot "overhang" doesn't breach the starting configuration volume (our host robot is well under) we should be fine then. In other words, there doesn't seem to be any rulings this year about starting outside frame perimeter ... it's starting within the Starting Config. Volume.

Kent,

Please be careful here... You know full well the intent of the rules even if the letter is lacking in clarity.

Unless you come to your competition armed with a GDC clarification, you run a very good risk of an inspector or referee ruling against you.

JMHO,

Mike

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Guys, the blue boxes are important too...

<R14> When a ROBOT is in its STARTING CONFIGURATION, no part of the ROBOT shall extend outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER (with the exception of minor protrusions such as bolt heads, fastener ends, rivets, etc).

This means no “mushroom-bots.” If a ROBOT is designed as intended and in its STARTING CONFIGURATION, you should be able to push the ROBOT (with BUMPERS removed) up against a vertical wall, and the FRAME PERIMETER will be the only point of contact with the wall.

Kent, STARTING CONFIGURATION is determined by the robot design not the volume constraints listed in R11. Those are maximum dimensions, your robot may/should be less.

STARTING CONFIGURATION – the physical configuration and orientation of the ROBOT when the MATCH is started. This is the state of the ROBOT immediately before being enabled by the Field Management System, before the ROBOT takes any actions, deploys any mechanisms, or moves away from the starting location. This configuration is static, and does not change during a single MATCH (although it may change from MATCH to MATCH).

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by IndySam

ROBOT – the composite electromechanical assembly designed and built by a FRC team to perform specific tasks when competing in the 2011 competition LogoMotion. The ROBOT must include all the basic systems required to be an active participant in the game – power, communications, control, mobility, and actuation. The ROBOT implementation must obviously follow a design approach intended to play the 2011 FRC game (e.g. a box of unassembled parts placed on the FIELD, or a ROBOT designed to play a different game, would not satisfy this definition). The ROBOT includes both the HOSTBOT and the MINIBOT (ROBOT = HOSTBOT + MINIBOT).

A minibot is part of the robot by definition and therefore subject to the starting configuration rules.

I agree but Kent's point is well taken. <R11> explicitly states that the minibot is not included in the starting configuration volume.

As I pointed out, <R14> does require the entire robot to be within the frame perimeter. The anguish I have is that the bumpers are also part of the robot and therefore can not be outside the bumper perimeter.

Yuck... These rules are such a mess...

At issue here is that <R11>, <R14>, et cetera, have been muddled by the minibot-hostbot general mish-mash making this year's rules among the worst I have ever read...

JMHO,

Mike

[TerryS]

Originally Posted by Mike Betts

As I pointed out, <R14> does require the entire robot to be within the frame perimeter. The anguish I have is that the bumpers are also part of the robot and therefore can not be outside the bumper perimeter.

The definition of "frame perimeter" in Section 1 and the bumper requirements of <R7> make it clear that the bumpers are outside of the frame perimeter.

After rereading <R11> I see Kent's point about the minibot being allowed to overhang the frame perimeter. I would submit an official Q&A if that's really what you have. I would also rethink your design because if part of your minibot's sticking out there unprotected then it's liable to sustain damage during play.