Blocking the lane with an ubertube in autonomous

[Cory]

Why would you not just drive through the tube and smash it?

[Nuttyman54]

Originally Posted by Cory

Why would you not just drive through the tube and smash it?

We had some experience with this at the Nashua scrimmage, they don't give that easily. They do crush some, but they're very very resilient when they get between the wall and your robot, and for the most part they don't crush enough to allow easy access to the slot in that position, and they don't fly up and out of the way when hit hard like you might expect.

I'm willing to bet we'll see this happen a few more times at least (either on purpose or on accident) at this weekends' events.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by Cory

Why would you not just drive through the tube and smash it?

I saw one team in Alamo spend basically the entire match ramming into a tube that was blocking its loading slot. They never succeeded in smashing it, or went to the other slot (probably the better strategy). Match ended 0-0.

[thefro526]

We didn't drop the tube in the lane, but we did start with the tube in such a way that once the robot moved in teleop the tube would go into the lane.

An unexpected tube on the floor of the lane will trip up a lot more teams than you think.

[nighterfighter]

After seeing this on the webcasts, we tried to test it with our robot.

The circles seem to be the biggest problem.

We can crush (almost pop) the triangle and square to get to our feeder slot, but the circle doesn't like to give as much.

What would the penalties be if a robot popped a tube by crushing it, because an opposing alliance purposely blocked their feeder slot?

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by nighterfighter

What would the penalties be if a robot popped a tube by crushing it, because an opposing alliance purposely blocked their feeder slot?

<G38> ROBOTS and HOSTBOTS may not intentionally deflate GAME PIECES. No violation will be assigned for unintentional deflation. Violation: PENALTY plus RED CARD for intentional deflation. Repeated unintentional deflation may result in a YELLOW CARD.

I see no reason why a game piece in your lane would be any different nor do I think placing a game piece in the lane would count as forcing you to take a penalty.

[TD912]

Interestingly, I saw this in a practice match yesterday (via webcast):

[Radical Pi]

Judging by the number of tubes being thrown completely clear of the lanes in FLR, I doubt this will prove to be an effective strategy during later regionals

[KC1AJT]

our team competed at BAE and didnt have much problem at all since we have tracks and can just power through

[DonRotolo]

Only a few teams were tripped up by a half-dozen or more tubes in the lane, most teams just went through them.

Actually MOST teams picked them up off the floor after their opponents tossed them right in front of their zone.

[jason701802]

I think that placing ubertubes in the feeder lane is a good strategy, but for a different reason. Because of how little the feeder stations are being used, with most alliances I don't think it'll make much of a difference. The reason I think it's a good strategy is because it's a place to get rid of ubertubes that are other wise in the way. If a team is able to score an ubertube in autonomous, I think scoring with it would be much more beneficial than putting it into the feeding lane.

[Billfred]

This sounds like an easy fix, though: remove from play any released ubertubes in the lanes at the end of the autonomous period. I don't see much need for a penalty here.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Billfred

This sounds like an easy fix, though: remove from play any released ubertubes in the lanes at the end of the autonomous period. I don't see much need for a penalty here.

I see no need for this 'fix'.

There is no penalty for (nor rule against) putting the Ubertube into the lane during autonomous, so why change the game now? ... unless you can't deal with the tactic?

[MagiChau]

Using uber-tubes for the lane I find a bad idea. Instead, a good human feeder could throw a logo pieces into the lane accurately with a reliable method to get a tube where you want. I find the 6 or 9 points resulting from hanging an uber-tube top row outweighing the benefits of using such a strategy. Good manipulation of game pieces by human players or the robots during teleop could create some hazardous obstacles. At Traverse City I noticed a lot of tubes getting in the way of robots already without purposeful rearrangement. Now imagine those tubes are purposely being pushed to get in the way of robots that are not allowed to pick up another tube.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

I see no need for this 'fix'.

There is no penalty for (nor rule against) putting the Ubertube into the lane during autonomous, so why change the game now? ... unless you can't deal with the tactic?

A change would mean the GDC never intended for the tactic to be used. In the same way that placing a tube into the lane would cause slot-loaders to adjust to the tactic, a rule change would cause the teams employing this tactic to adapt.

The tactic is a cheap shot against slot loaders that are already at an inherent disadvantage this year, imo, though it probably didn't effect even 1% of qual match outcomes. Furthermore, it probably significantly increases the frustration due to improbable success of slot loaders this year -- slot-only pickups are already disadvantaged (in practice) due to the early design decisions to NOT pick up off the floor. So why keep allowing the tactic if it only serves to frustrate those who have no other option, rather than actually impeding good robots that really NEED good tactics to play effective defense against? I think we all make mostly logical decisions in the beginning that we're inherently 'punished' for due to better decisions being made by competing designs.