Lessons learned for Week 2 Regionals?

[galewind]

Originally Posted by LH Machinist

Line tape problems

I saw a team identify tape problems before a qualification match, it looked scuffed or dirty from the stands. The field crew made a quick repair that the team appeared not to like and had to leave the field under protest. During autonomous their robot deployed the uber tube way prematurely.

Was the team correct or was it a field issue. I tend to believe the team because after the match, the field crew carefully repaired the tape.

If you were talking about the NJ regional, yes this occured near the end of the qualification matches to team 1647. They protested, one of the refs moved their hands over the tape to see it was still down, then the teammate was sent back after protesting it because there were tire tread smudges on the line. The smudges did, in fact, cause the tube to deploy prematurely. After the match, the team spoke to the referees, and since the lack of ubertube did not change the result of the match, they opted not to replay it.

So teams that use the line trackers -- make sure your line is good, and speak with the referees before your match, and give them the time they need to fix the problem.

[HarveyAce]

Originally Posted by nuggetsyl

You must have a working mini bot to win.

I disagree. i saw plenty of matches in both FLR and Alamo where the winner of the minibot race lost the match. Correction: you must have a consistent manipulator and minibot DEPLOYMENT to win. Normally if the match finished with the winning team winning the bonus, it didn't matter because they would have won anyway, even if their opponents had won the race. The teams that could get into a rhythm when scoring tubes were the ones that won because they were simply able to starve their opponents of points. and a lot of them didn't have the greatest handling manipulators, they were just consistent and well practiced with using them. The deployment system is definitely more key than the minibot, because if a fast sub-two-second minibot can't be deployed, then the slower 5 second minibot wins every time if it is deployed.

TUBE + MINIBOT DEPLOYMENT = WON MATCH

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

It seems that minibots are like ramps were early in '07. It was extremely hard to win a match against a double ramp if you had no ramps. But, once both alliances had ramps, matchs were decided by tubes. As more and more teams get consistent minibots, tube scoring will become more important.

This is correct, to an extent.

Ramps in 2007 were independent of the other alliance. You could score your 60 points regardless of any bonus points the other alliance scored. Minibot races live up to their name, they're races. The winning minibot is not only scoring points for their alliance, they're denying potential points to the opponent.

Even when both alliances have multiple, quick, consistent minibots, the race will still have the potential to win a match over tube placement. Especially if one alliance can manage to grab first and second place, which results in a whopping 25 additional points over getting 3rd and 4th.

The potential exists for minibot races to almost be a matter of luck when both alliances have lightning fast minibots and deployment systems. Whoever happens to execute the best (or have the most fortunate series of events) in each particular match could win, almost regardless of what happened in the 2:05 of that match leading up to that point. Any number of small mistakes or freak chances could result in an extra second or two added to the climb time or a dropped minibot, which could very easily result in a lost match.

If you played a 100 matches in a series between teams with similar minibots, sure the alliance with better tube scorers would likely win. But in a series of 3 matches, I can't say that's always going to be the case.

Originally Posted by commodoredl

Did any of the other regionals have issues with their fields detecting minibots? At FLR, almost every minibot to reach the top was undetected by the touch sensor. We had to have referees keep track of which minibots were scoring, and that wasn't good when things got close at some points.

Definitely an issue in NJ as well. Sometimes a strong blow the pole or tower base would accidentally set off the sensor, as well. This issue adds another element of "chance" and potential for human error into the minibot race. Hopefully they can get it resolves and/or incorporate a more fool-proof method of seeing who won minibot races.

[Justin Montois]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

..... and that it effectively turns Logomotion into a coin flip (if heads, your team's minibot doesn't combust halfway up the pole and cost you the event!)

[galewind]

1. Everyone should put 7.5A fuses in their minibot batteries if they don't want their motors to burn out.

2. Minibots change the game more than I believe they should. Under many qualification matches, if you won the race, you won the match. This also occured in MANY of the elimination matches.

3. That said, if you are going to a week 2 regional and don't have a minibot built yet, you have 5 more days to do so. USE THEM WISELY. Find out successful systems and BUILD ONE. I kid you not, it is the most important thing for you to do as an FRC team to make sure you have a working, consistent minibot. Minibot speed is great, and all, and it may make the difference in later weeks at the higher end of the competition, but many teams with "Tricked out" minibots had issues.

[Brian Ha]

About the minibot stuff, KEEP THEM SECURE!!! In one of the first matches, a minibot fell off and then it got bashed to death really, so watch out. Also another thing, watch your manipulator, roller or claw, be able to pull it up quick, i saw team 27 rush, get their one of their side aligners for tubes get decimated and bent, it looked bad but i think they fixed it. So all's good, but watch it and teams will not be afraid to hit it. Also a team with a solid fast strong def bot with a minibot without a arm is very effective. Team 3536 yea a rookie got 2nd seed because their minibot was very consistent, maybe slow but it got their and they did very well. Also the good teams will have dead programming for autonomous, or watever you call it, thats how its done, the lines are iffy and robots shake a lot when they get close to the poles when going fast so cameras get messed up. Do what works and make it work. Another thing teams with a beast of a hp lik us will not pick feeders, they will have no need for you so you might want to change your robot a little because we had a feeder bot at kettering 314 big mo basically they went down out scouting choice for the fact that they are a feeder and we didnt need them. AUTONOMOUS IS A DEFINITE NEED!!! Minibots will play less and less of a role when teams have a auto robot and a robot that has a good hanging arm. Also YOU DONT HAFTA SCORE ON THE TOP MIDDLE PEG IN AUTO, ITS THE SAME AMOUNT OF POINTS ON ANY OTHER PEG AND THE OTHERS ARE LOWER!!! SO DO THAT!! instead. Also be able to score in the middle of the two racks because most teams don't have that option and its not that hard its just turning how high you raise the arm a little and just lining it up from a different spot. It can be done. And minibot isnt required by me, but if your a rookie team, do that instead of an arm, follow in 3536 footsteps, they got seed 2 just because of a slow but consistent minibot and a very good defensive robot. Hands off to their driver who definately has gotten the hang of it. Also logos logos logos, they are key but if you have no time to score a logo just got top rack even if its 3 triangles because no matter what its not a big deal. Anyways thats all ill say for now until week 3. Thanks for reading and a shout out to the electro eagles, loved meeting you guys months ago, and love seeing you guys kick some butt out there.

[XXShadowXX]

Two words:

Minibot, Autonomous.

These two things seem to make or break a winning alliance. Doing both reliably seems to be the winning formula. Yes this may seem obvious playing the game is the secret to playing the game but in past games end game and autonomous sometimes seem to be very undervalued (in my own opinion). And now they seem more important then ever.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by HarveyAce

I disagree. i saw plenty of matches in both FLR and Alamo where the winner of the minibot race lost the match. Correction: you must have a consistent manipulator and minibot DEPLOYMENT to win. Normally if the match finished with the winning team winning the bonus, it didn't matter because they would have won anyway, even if their opponents had won the race. The teams that could get into a rhythm when scoring tubes were the ones that won because they were simply able to starve their opponents of points. and a lot of them didn't have the greatest handling manipulators, they were just consistent and well practiced with using them. The deployment system is definitely more key than the minibot, because if a fast sub-two-second minibot can't be deployed, then the slower 5 second minibot wins every time if it is deployed.

TUBE + MINIBOT DEPLOYMENT = WON MATCH

how is it what Sean said, is incorrect? I believe he is implying working as able to score. Part of your argument is agreeing with him.
2 working minibots vs an alliance with none, I'll take that every time.

[pfreivald]

Another lesson: Those of you with bumper skirts, make sure they are very well made. The FTA has been instructed to disable robots that have any of the wrong color showing, or any suspicion that the skirt extends outside the bumper zone in either direction -- without warning to the team so effected.

I have this on very good authority, what with our team having a bumper skirt that almost got us red carded from every red match we played!

[kmusa]

Originally Posted by StevenB

Make sure your minibot stays on your hostbot. I'll say it again: if you care about getting the minibot bonus, and if you value the work you put into building it, then make good and sure it doesn't fall off and get run over by a hostbot. It feels like watching your pet turtle try to cross the freeway.

Very, very true.

For whatever reason (gremlins?), ours was released early in tele-op. Watching it sit on the field, with all of the robots racing about, was definitely high-stress.

It would have made a captivating youtube video had it raced across the field, ran into something else and then released whatever magic smoke it had left. Luckily, we were relieved to find only minimal damage after the match.

--Karlis

[Bjenks548]

At least at kettering, matches were not won only based on minibots or tubes. The winning alliance had 2 robots constantly scoring and the same 2 robots had great minibots. The last team member was stealing tubes and bringing them to the home zone. Furthermore, 33s double ubertube autonomous worked very well and gave them 3 ubertubes in many elimination matches. If this shows things to come it will take 3 uber tubes, 3 logos, and 2 minibots to win at higher levels.

[MagiChau]

I would say make sure your minibot deployment system is very reliable and sturdy. At Traverse City some hard defense made robots' deployment mechanisms broken. No point of having a good minibot if during competition you cannot launch it because you did not count on a robot hitting you as you line up for the end-game, a fatal vulnerability point for some deployment systems.

[Mike Norton]

Some of these mini bots should not have scored. Just because they hit the top does not mean they win. The rules state it should be able to push the plate not just hit it. Some of these fast little mini bots did not have enough power to push the plate up. That is a design flaw; they should not have gotten the points for it.

When a bigger mini bot hit the top the lights did go off.

[Mike Norton]

The best thing they had at the regionals is the fast pass. Make sure you get your robot inspected quickly. if you do then you can get in a lot of practice time.

[MagiChau]

Originally Posted by Mike Norton

Some of these mini bots should not have scored. Just because they hit the top does not mean they win. The rules state it should be able to push the plate not just hit it. Some of these fast little mini bots did not have enough power to push the plate up. That is a design flaw; they should not have gotten the points for it.

When a bigger mini bot hit the top the lights did go off.

Sometimes the trigger plates don't even work. I heard from a mentor that when testing a trigger plate, someone smacked it hard and it did not even trigger.