5th Gear

[Bjenks548]

Anyone have the link were I can get the 5th gear download? Sounds like it was working at the regionals.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Bjenks548

Anyone have the link were I can get the 5th gear download? Sounds like it was working at the regionals.

We have submitted requests to have it posted on both the WPI Think Tank and a public-facing Lockheed Martin site. We are waiting for the admins at both locations to approve the requests and thereby let the public (you) begin downloading it.

[ghostmachine360]

Mr. Ross, do you know if they're exhibiting the 5th Gear software at the Peachtree Regional again? We, over at CircuitRunners Robotics, have been the ones helping to set up and run the 5th Gear program for 2009 & 2010 at Peachtree with LM, but we haven't heard anything from LM, GeorgiaFIRST, or Jim Rundquist.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by ghostmachine360

Mr. Ross, do you know if they're exhibiting the 5th Gear software at the Peachtree Regional again? We, over at CircuitRunners Robotics, have been the ones helping to set up and run the 5th Gear program for 2009 & 2010 at Peachtree with LM, but we haven't heard anything from LM, GeorgiaFIRST, or Jim Rundquist.

With all the hectic fun of FRC build season, I can certainly understand if you haven't heard anything directly from Jim, but fear not; he has been writing code for the simulator this year (feel free to ask him why he either created or didn't already fix any bugs you find); and he has the Peachtree Regional in his sights.

So, "Yes", at Peachtree 5th Gear will be available for fun and for challenging other teams/mascots to contests in its vritual world.

Blake
PS: THANK YOU Circuit Runners for all of your help at the World Championships that were hosted in Atlanta. That will be a tough act to follow now that the Worlds will be in St Louis.

[Chris is me]

I'm (not so) patiently awaiting this software's release, hoping that we can use it for driver training before our regional this Thursday.

How long do you anticipate it will take to get approved on one of the two websites? If someone were to provide temporary public hosting for the file, would you be willing to pass it along?

[gblake]

Folks,

Go here (WPI's Think Tank pages) now for the initial 2011 5th Gear release: http://thinktank.wpi.edu/article/141

Once again - A BIG THANK YOU to WPI for their generous donation of downloading services that complement our LM download site.

Ignore the "2010" in the Think Tank page title (we need to change it from 2010 to 2011).

Please take notes on bugs you find, but also please give us a chance to post a list of known bugs (soon) before we fill this thread with duplicates. Once we put up our list, if you have more bugs/requests to add, then please do post them here. We expect a modest number of those reports. Like you guys & gals building the robots, we very nearly have to ship/release as soon as we finish coding and modeling; so our testing plans often get the short end of the stick...

Enjoy!

Blake
PS: If you want to tell us you like 5th Gear; or especially if your team thinks it is a useful strategy/planning tool, or is a useful practice tool for drivers, coaches, and/or scouts; you have my permission to post those messages any time - no need to wait!

[indubitably]

I like 5th Gear and think it is a useful strategy/planning tool, as well as a useful practice tool for drivers, coaches, and/or scouts.

[2829ron]

Thanks for the hard work! There, I said it after it was done this time

Thanx,

David

[Rangel]

Originally Posted by gblake

Folks,

Go here (WPI's Think Tank pages) now for the initial 2011 5th Gear release: http://thinktank.wpi.edu/article/141

Once again - A BIG THANK YOU to WPI for their generous donation of downloading services that complement our LM download site.

Ignore the "2010" in the Think Tank page title (we need to change it from 2010 to 2011).

Please take notes on bugs you find, but also please give us a chance to post a list of known bugs (soon) before we fill this thread with duplicates. Once we put up our list, if you have more bugs/requests to add, then please do post them here. We expect a modest number of those reports. Like you guys & gals building the robots, we very nearly have to ship/release as soon as we finish coding and modeling; so our testing plans often get the short end of the stick...

Enjoy!

Blake
PS: If you want to tell us you like 5th Gear; or especially if your team thinks it is a useful strategy/planning tool, or is a useful practice tool for drivers, coaches, and/or scouts; you have my permission to post those messages any time - no need to wait!

Hey I installed 5th gear, installed the latest drivers and whenever I try to start a server, the game crashes and asks me to install the latest drivers and they are the latest.

[Chris is me]

Don't worry Blake, I already have tons of bug reports for you. At least one for every FRC game, actually.

In all seriousness, thanks a ton for the release. I'm glad you guys implemented so many good new features like autonomous mode, "revolving" server / clients so you don't have to restart, and the ability to quit mid match.

[Deetman]

NOTE TO EVERYONE INSTALLING:

If you are using the installation instruction linked on the WPI Think Tank page, the link to the XNA redistributable in the document is the WRONG version. 5th Gear needs the 3.1 XNA redistributable and the 3.0 redistributable is the one linked in the document. The correct XNA redistributable is at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...1-98EB3E799EF2

Installing 3.0 on my machine caused 5th Gear to not open at all. Installing 3.1 fixed this problem immediately.

Rangel - this could be causing your error.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Deetman

... on the WPI Think Tank page, the link to the XNA redistributable in the document is the WRONG version. ... Installing 3.0 on my machine caused 5th Gear to not open at all. Installing 3.1 fixed this problem immediately.
...

Yikes! - I have passed this info to David, the colleague who revised the instrcutions and pushed them up into the WPI site this year. Obviously, he/we will revise them.

Thanks! Deetman.

[gblake]

Bug/Request/Observations list from the week 1 regionals

Robots turn too slowly when responding to Xbox Controller (instead of keyboard).
The field's graphics models creep out of position over time. - We have a fix for this and will deploy it soon.
Rapidly issuing several throw requests from an Xbox controller crashes the server.
The triangle is "jumpy" when held by the liftbot.
Tubes can become unrealisticly entangled with the robot physics.
Alt-Tabbing out of a Fullscreen client makes the Field and Game Pieces disappear.
Client and Server score mismatch is not explained by the legends/titles on the screens.
Individual robots' scores on the Server are all zeros.
Robots sometimes (fall to the floor and) move erratically at the start of a match.
The Armbot arm can get stuck in the floor.
The Armbot arm is diffcult to control with the Xbox controller.
Occasional unhandled exceptions due to exceeding the size of a collection.
Interrupting the Client LM intro video between matches causes client rejections later.
Too easy to get stuck on top of tubes.
Too hard to pick up tubes with Armbot.
Hard to get tubes from feeding slots.
Easy to get stuck in the Feeder lanes.
Arcade drive turns better than Tank drive.
Strafing is too slow.
Screen graphics mismatched with physics (graphics model creep? - See above).

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by gblake

Robots turn too slowly when responding to Xbox Controller (instead of keyboard).

This isn't exclusive to the Xbox controller, at least in my experience. It's a very strange bug that depends a lot on robot configuration and the game you're playing.

For Logomotion, the lifter takes at least 5 seconds to turn 90 degrees using either the controller or the keyboard. The armbot can turn quickly, if the arm is retracted over the robot base. What I theorize is happening is that the game is calculating turning speed as a function of wheelbase length. That's why armbot turning speed drops dramatically with an extended arm holding a tube.

For Lunacy, robots are simply unable to turn. The trailer also has a dramatic amount of "pull" on the robot.

The triangle is "jumpy" when held by the liftbot.

To a lesser extent, this can happen with the armbot and the square or triangle, but only under some seemingly random circumstance.

The Armbot arm can get stuck in the floor.

Just a note for people playing: You can "unstick" the arm by backing up, then raising it one "click".

-----

Now for some of my bug reports:

Logomotion:

• Arm robot cannot score on the top row. I don't know if the claw is able to extend upward or something, but I have yet to get a tube on the top row with the arm robot.
• White tubes on the middle rack are particularly sensitive. Placing them usually results in no point increase, or it will alternate between scored and not scored. The white tube can be scored by jamming it behind the field model in a physically impossible way, but right now it almost never counts. I have not tested to see if this applies to all racks.
• Deploying a minibot early results in a 3 point penalty - this is not part of the game. The tower is simply disabled.

Overdrive: Just one! Balls that leave the field never return. They just roll off into the abyss. This makes the game kinda boring.

Lunacy: See above comment about turning. The game is not playable.

Breakaway: In the past, if a player rapidly hit the ball return key, some balls would roll along the edge of the player station then fall into the front zone. Now, these balls roll all the way down the edge of the player station and permanently off the field, into the abyss.

---

Please don't take my list as a scathing criticism of this software. I love it and enjoy using it!

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Rangel(kf7fdb)

Hey I installed 5th gear, installed the latest drivers and whenever I try to start a server, the game crashes and asks me to install the latest drivers and they are the latest.

You don't always want the latest drivers the OEMs (Microsoft, Nvidia, etc.) produced - You do want the "latest" drivers 5th Gear expects. Let's see if that is the cause of your symptom.

I/we are using:

.Net 3.5 SP1. You can get it from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...displaylang=en

DirectX 9.0c. You can get it from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...1-50ceb6d8fa8d

You need to use XNA 3.1. You can get it (actually you an MS installer package) from here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/e...1-98eb3e799ef2

You need to use Nvidia PhysX 9.10.0513. You can get it from here:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx-9...13-driver.html

Xbox controller (we use WIRED, not wireless, controllers) drivers are found here: http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/do...ategory=gaming
We have not tested using wireless controllers.

Notice that (for example) .Net 3.5 SP1 isn't the latest .Net version Microsoft offers. If you use later or earlier versions, you are diverging from what we develop on. Later versions of it (or of any of the other pre-reqs) should offer "backward" compatability, but I wouldn't bet my paycheck on it.

Let us/me know how this stacks up against what is in your computer and/or what happens if you switch to using exactly what I listed above.

Blake