Lessons learned for Week 2 Regionals?

[MathFreak]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

And how many teams did you see an alliance win the minibot race and lose the match?

Even if the team win the race and lose the match, it'S not a bad thing because the team will win if they got two other strong robots that can get a lot of points on the tube.

My mentor said the minibot is the biggest not only because it can get high points but also because the other strong teams will want to get your team in their alliance because of your minibot.

[MagiChau]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

I saw human players chucking alot of tubes that went flying towards the scorers table.
Teams should be discouraged from just throwing tubes wildly that could take out the scoring equipment. A yellow card might do the trick.

There is the rule <G36>

Originally Posted by 2011 FRC Game Manual 02/22/11

<G36> GAME PIECES may not be intentionally placed out of bounds.
Violation: PENALTY and YELLOW CARD

, though I am not sure if throwing wildly constitutes on purpose out of bounds.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by MagiChau

There is the rule <G36> , though I am not sure if throwing wildly constitutes on purpose out of bounds.

They weren't doing it on purpose (I saw one human player's toss goo straight up to the ceiling of the Gordon Fieldhouse and end up behind the driver's station) but when team's robots get stuck and they keep running the robot til they burn a hole in the carpet they get smacked upside the head with a card for doing it and I think it should apply to this action as well.

[MathFreak]

that's right, and the feeding is safer than throwing.

Originally Posted by smistthegreat

Just an observation from going to FLR today: I was very surprised by the amount of teams throwing tubes. I'm not sure how I feel about it, but for some of the matches, especially with powerhouses 217 and 2056, it seemed like the human players throwing tubes were doing nothing but feeding their opponents. If you throw a tube into the middle, you're basically giving it to the team with the best manipulator.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by MathFreak

that's right, and the feeding is safer than throwing.

I mentioned this previously: if you are going against opponents who are better at retrieving tubes off the floor than you are then don't toss the tubes out there and make it easy for them.
That's why scouting is important. You need to know the capabilities of your opponents and your alliance partners so you know how to use your tubes properly so you don't get thumped.

[MathFreak]

Minibot is big, but you don't have to deploy 2 minibot. If 1 minibot is faster than the others, you have to deploy the fastest minibot and the other robots should go defending.

Autonomous is not that big but you should get points, it doesn't matter if the ubertube is in the lowest low, you can still get points.

Originally Posted by XXShadowXX

Two words:

Minibot, Autonomous.

These two things seem to make or break a winning alliance. Doing both reliably seems to be the winning formula. Yes this may seem obvious playing the game is the secret to playing the game but in past games end game and autonomous sometimes seem to be very undervalued (in my own opinion). And now they seem more important then ever.

[MagiChau]

Originally Posted by MathFreak

Autonomous is not that big but you should get points, it doesn't matter if the ubertube is in the lowest low, you can still get points.

I would say autonomous is pretty big. Top row its worth 6 points, middle 4, bottem 2 without the bonus for logo pieces during teleop. If your alliance can get 3 uber tubes up that is 18 points automatically. 9 additional points for scoring over them. Its almost the equivalent of winning the minibot race during a time period where the other alliance cannot stop you.

[MathFreak]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

Something I observed from week one:
A good defense can ruin an ENTIRE team, if played correctly.

Defending is a good point and the most important thing is you have to defend the towers during the minibot race.

[MathFreak]

Originally Posted by MagiChau

I would say autonomous is pretty big. Top row its worth 6 points, middle 4, bottem 2 without the bonus for logo pieces during teleop. If your alliance can get 3 uber tubes up that is 18 points automatically. 9 additional points for scoring over them. Its almost the equivalent of winning the minibot race during a time period where the other alliance cannot stop you.

most of teams think that during the autonomous the lowest row is not that high so they stay there for 15 seconds doing nothing.

My mentor told me that if you can't get to the top row, you shouldn't move during the autonomous (this is not what I'm thinking).

[MathFreak]

So don't we get points for towers not triggering?

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

The problem with the tower triggers is two-fold:

1 - False positives: The tower will sometimes trigger because of a hard hit by a hostbot on the pole or base, before the minibot even begins to move.

2 - False negatives: The tower will not trigger even when soundly smacked by the minibot.

At Kettering, the false negatives were associated with the faster minibots. It was noted that in order to eliminate the false positives, the sensitivity was decreased, and it was surmised that the fastest minibots did not provide enough contact time to trigger the tower. It was not a matter of force, but of time of contact.

Hopefully this can be addressed.

[wilsonmw04]

Originally Posted by MathFreak

most of teams think that during the autonomous the lowest row is not that high so they stay there for 15 seconds doing nothing.

My mentor told me that if you can't get to the top row, you shouldn't move during the autonomous (this is not what I'm thinking).

To do nothing means leaving another tube to litter the field and possibly get in your way. I'd rather spend those 15 seconds earning two points than doing nothing. Maybe I just don't get it?

[pfreivald]

I don't see a single downside to scoring in autonomous.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by MathFreak

So don't we get points for towers not triggering?

The tower races can be scored manually if needed. However, because of the way such points are entered into the data base they do not wind up in an easily identifiable place. I forget exactly where they go, but there is a place for manually scored points. They will not show up in the minibot points column. They will be included in your final score for the match and will be used in your ranking score etc.

The problems with the towers are now a known issue and the FIRST technical staff will be working very hard to come up with a solution that allows teams to score without false scores from robots hitting the tower. Some attempts have already been made but apparently were not very successful.

The field staff including Scorers, Field Manager, Referees and FTA take this very seriously and will make sure your team gets all the points (and penalties too for that matter) they are entitled too.

[Zuelu562]

Originally Posted by Swampdude

Can you explain your guide system, and the offended rule explanation?

Our guide system involved 2 rods going up and holding the minibot. If you have a similar system that keeps the minibot oriented correctly WHILE it's moving up the tower, you're going to need to cut it down so that your minibot is not in contact with the upward pole after it gets above the deployment line.

We have a PVC shaft attached to our minibot, that slides into the guide, and the second end of the guide holds it nearer to the tower. I'd try to get a picture, but I really do not have access to our minibot until next monday (or whenever our mentors want to meet to work on the robot again for battlecry.

[Nikki Haux]

This is all really good information. Thanks for starting this thread. A lot is being mentioned on the logo pieces not being a priority. Do you think this is because of inexperience or something else? Do you think this was done intentionally, to make the autonomous and end game( Both a lot of programming), more important, or just the way we are playing the game?