FOLDING TEAMS!!

[Andrew Dahl]

Just a "throw it out there question"

has there been any teams that say at this point not reached funding and thrown in the towel or have disbanded for lack of interest-

it seems unlikely but looking back over all the teams list from past competitiions some teams stayed for 3-4 years and then were never to heard from again

is there an average life span of a team


thanks

dahl
team 497
team nerd

[Clark Gilbert]

How could a team possibly "retire" from a lack of interest?? That seems alittle hard to believe...

I think it would be interesting to know the average life span of a team too, but that would take awhile to figure out...

[Vin211]

I believe the average life span of a team would be 4 - 5 years. You can't forget that some teams have been here since 1990's and others try to stay in as long as possible. Although they may not like having their team disbanned, they don't have a choice. One reason might be, money problems. Another would be, lost of interest. Another would be administrative problems. Once you come to think about it, there's alot of politics involved. I know our team will stay as long as possible.

[David Kelso]

Things can look pretty good one season and pretty gloomy the next year. If we do not pick up a major sponsor, this will be our last year. A team can not spend a year begging/ worrying about raising 1000's of dollars. It takes the fun out of it after a while.

[Vin211]

That's what our team does. We do not really have one big sponsor. We spend alot of our free time fundraising and trying to get small donations from a variety of business'. And whatever money we're short by time we go to competitions, comes out of our own pocket. I personally haven't had to pay that much because I've gotten a couple sponsors and such on my own.

[Patrick Wang]

Speaking of having a wide financial base, if anybody would remember, one of requirements for receiving a Kleiner Perkins Grant this year was a wide base of sponsership.

Our team is headed into it's 5th year. I suppose if 4-5 is truly the average then next year will be fun. What I do notice however, it that there is a definate gap between 5 year teams and 10 year teams. A large number of teams seem to have 3-5 years, but few have 6-9 while there are a few VERY well established teams that can claim 10 years.

Does anyone else follow this sort of trend? If your team can establish itself it usually has to do so within 4-5 years?

Or do you think that it is simply the probablilty of encounter a devastating problem after 5 years of running a team.

The people are the team, when there is a will there is a way. Ultimately I think it boils down to the ability and will of the constiuents of the team.

I remember several things said about a strong organization.

One thing that stands out to me is that is should not be based on one pivotal person. Basically the team should function if it loses any one person.

I realize now that this post have very little direction, but the complexities of running an organization cannot be summed up to merely politics.

That is what makes FIRST. The Students and Mentors. The Robot is merely what sticks them together.

[Matt Attallah]

This is a very hard year for us as well. We mabye have 10 people total in our club that actucally does anything and any money that is found on the floor is ours! We are having a hard time with the money too. If it doesn't get better, this may be our last year!! I hope thisn't so due to me being a junior this year, but I will try as hard as i can to keep this team togther. Just my high school has like 580 kids tops, so there isn't too big of a selection for kids to come and join us. Hopefully I am wrong, but it seems as this is our last year (5th year too...)

[EStokely]

I believe its a multi surfaced problem but would include funding, interest, and in some cases, a teacher willing to continue to do it.
I know in the school I left there was a scramble to find a robotics coach to replace me. In the end it was a retired engineer who is on the books just for robotics.

Funding is always a problem. if it were just 5k for the regional and a scramble to make national if you won the regional I think it would be easier, like in most HS sports. Its the multi regionals/nationals that start really running up the budget.

Interest. The life span of a HS student is 4 years. if the core of the team graduates with no replacements then that will kill a team also.

In the long run it *should* get easier. Once robotics become established in more places it will start to be expected at a school. i.e. funded by the school to some extent (yea the sky is blue in my world also, well not now, its raining)

I hope schools explore the option of merging several schools together before bailing on FIRST

Later all

ES

[Kit Gerhart]

As a member of one of the few ten year teams, it is easy to envision a number of things that can result in a team "going out of business." We have been very lucky in having the same corporate sponsor for the ten years. We have had an adequate number of engineers, working mostly on their own time, and we have had enough teachers to keep our team running. Since 1998 we have had our own workshop in a warehouse owned by the local electric utility.

FIRST is expensive, it requires teachers and engineers willing to give up most of their spare time for 3-4 months of the year, and it requires the support of the school board. We have been lucky in having all these factors remain in place "for the duration."

Unfortunately, FIRST, even if you have a successful team, doesn't have the community support of, say, high school football. It takes work from many different directions to keep a team together for a long time. If we can get our communities as excited about FIRST as they are about sports, that would be great. We haven't gotten there yet.

[OtakuRob]

We're on our fourth year over here, and it is definately getting harder, financial crisis aside.. Getting an influx of new members is always hard and finding members who stick with it is even harder.. Many people have distorted views when they begin their trek into this competition, and disillusionment with the job happens..

As it would be, leadership also gets to be a problem.. Teachers, it seems, come and go, and adults sometimes run out of time to volunteer(sp?).. Things get tough, but sometimes it is possible to perhaps take a break for a year or so, and come back stronger than ever..

If there are any teams who have done that, could you post your stories?? I'm sure we'd all love to hear them..

[Kit Gerhart]

I am starting my 7th year with TechnoKats. Both our team and I personally have had some highs and lows over those years, but overall, it has been great.

We have had our ups and downs in regards to both competitive success, and in regards to how well we worked as a team. We had a very rough year in '97, where we didn't do very well in the competition and had too many "people problems." mainly among the adults. I came very close to quitting the team after that year.

I'm very glad I decided not to quit. In '98 I got my first chance to be a competition coach which was a job I had wanted from the start, and we won Nationals. Winning Nationals was by far the most exhilerating experience I have ever had, at least related to a competition, and I have had some success at other types of competition (model airplanes) at national and international levels. I think a big part of what made our team's winning FIRST so special was having 10,000 noisy spectators out there during those last few matches. Maybe being part of a team rather than competing as an individual also added something to the experience.

Now that I've said all that, while nothing beats winning, if you have a good team that works well together, you can learn and have fun, even though not every team can win. I'm starting my 5th year since the year I almost quit, and we have 5 or so other adults who have been with the team for at least 5 years, including our lead engineer and lead teacher.

One constant is that we never have as many people as we'd really like, either students or adults. We have had a number of engineers show up a time or two, but when they learn the realities of what is involved during the "build season," they disappear not to be seen again. Still, things always seem to work out, and unless something very unexpected happens, our team should be around for a long time to come.

[Mike Norton]

Just to add my two cents:

This is the school 9th year and this is my 8th year. We are getting out because of the things FIRST has done.

It cost us about $35,000 a year to run our program. This has been funded in so many different ways.

FIRST has taken the wind out of this program for saying you can not go to the nationals unless you win or have done something in the past to be able to go or be a even team.

For us not to go to the national is a big thing. It has taken us a long time to do well.

So after they announced how this year is going to work, we went out and saw how we can teach robotic and do everything FIRST is trying to do by going to battlebot.

Not all team leave because of funding.

Some leave just to go somewhere better.

[gniticxe]

Originally posted by Mike Norton
Just to add my two cents:
....
So after they announced how this year is going to work [nats qualification], we went out and saw how we can teach robotic and do everything FIRST is trying to do by going to battlebot.

Not all team leave because of funding.

Some leave just to go somewhere better.

IMHO, if you think you can capture the whole FIRST experience with BattleBots, more power to you. It is hard for me to believe though. Sure, BattleBots might be well known throughout our age group, and I am sure the participants there have a lot of fun but, FIRST has provided me, and so many other people over the years, with an experience designed to be both energetic and educational.
Money is an issue for every team. No one is alone in that respect. The concept of qualifying for Nationals, I think, will make everyone try to build a better bot! No longer will that part just 'do,' it will be the part that will work, because it is the best concept that the team can think of. Best of wishes with BattleBots, but don't forget FIRST.

[EStokely]

Wow. of the reasons to drop out I would have bet money on "not being able to go to the nationals unless we won our regional" as not being a reason.

I think we all saw this coming. If not this year then next year. Disney can't accomodate 700 teams. I'm not sure I would be willing to compete in a 700 team field.

At a 40% growth rate FIRST had to do this

I look at the nationals as evolving into what HS sports does.

If you do well you move on to the 'State Championships'. In our case 'State' is another name for Florida.
Mock Trial has this type of setup. As do Band competitions, Academic competitions...

I guess what puzzles me is we call it a competition but some people get upset when you want to use competitive criteria to decide who goes to the Nationals.
And for the record. My old team made the finals a few times but never won a regional.

I hope Mike reconsiders next year. a long time team (61) is a huge assett to the FIRST community .
In any event, have fun.

(I've also looked into the HS BattleBots. Seems they need to work on it a bit more)

Eric

[OtakuRob]

Leaving FIRST for Battlebots??

I suppose nothing can change the minds, but FIRST is a competition, and hence making Nationals a qualificatory (I think I used the right word) event, I see no problem.. It's part of the competition..

As for learning robotics at Battlebots, well yeah you can learn robotics by just playing with erector sets and so forth.. It's all the other things you learn the makes FIRST different.. Teamwork, quick thinking within a group, and working within deadlines, just to name a few, are things that probably won't come up..

These are just my opinions of course, so take no offence to any of them.. But if I want to take mindless agression out, I play video games, or wreck RC cars.. Good Luck with Battlebots though, and keep all use FIRSTers in mind!!