2011 Legal Batteries?

[Jimmy Nichols]

Fox,

Andymark sells FRC legal batteries, 2 for US$83

https://www.andymark.com/ProductDeta...Code=am%2D0844

[fox46]

Well I went ahead and bought the FR rated batteries. Q&A has not made any new posts since the 24th and I was tired of waiting in case they took two weeks to come in. Alas they arrived the next day! The part number on them is actually NP18-12BFR - there is indeed a B in there denoting the bolted terminals. They look identical to the KOP batteries- same color, same label, made by Enersys, Genesis line, same red markings but have FR added to the part number and "Fire Retardant" written below it. Here's to hoping they're kosher and if not we still have our two KOP batteries.

AndyMark is out of stock and apparently there have been issues shipping the batteries accross the border. Plus we got these for $60 each and didnt have to pay for shipping.

[Joe Ross]

Unfortunately, 2 weeks too late, the GDC answered that using the FR batteries are illegal. http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=17428

[fox46]

Thank you GDC for your most expedient and comprehensive reply

Someone remind me why we even have a Q&A forum?

I'm going to go hit something helpless with a hammer now....

[Racer26]

I'm not so sure that that is what was meant by the Q&A answer.

Originally Posted by 2011FRC2013

Good day all. Our team has been trying to obtain some competition legal spare batteries from a local source (Greater Toronto Area, Ontario, Canada). After speaking with a local vendor we purchased what we expected to be four "Enersys NP18-12B" batteries" as ordered over the phone. When they finally came in the batteries are branded "Powersonic PS-12180" as shown here:

http://powersonic.com/images/powerso...10_June_22.pdf

This vendor maintains that these are identical to Enersys NP18-12B and that there are no differences other than the branding that would differentiate them from the KOP batteries.

Given proper documentation showing their performance characteriestics to be identical to the KOP batteries, would these or other alternatively branded batteries be legal for competition?

We have found another vendor who has Enersys NP18-12FR batteries in stock. This other vendor maintains that they are identical to the KOP batteries in performance, are made by the same manufacturer- Enersys, but are built with a fire retardant case denoted by the "FR" in the part number. Would these NP18-12FR batteries be acceptable?

Thank you.

The GDC responded with "No."

The question in the Q&A was not directly "Are the Enersys NP18-12BFR batteries legal?"

The question in the Q&A was asking about the PowerSonic or other similar batteries.

[fox46]

Well I agree with you in that I hope they were referring to the first question regarding the PowerSonics but I did indeed post two questions. The second part contained in the last paragraph was:

We have found another vendor who has Enersys NP18-12FR batteries in stock. This other vendor maintains that they are identical to the KOP batteries in performance, are made by the same manufacturer- Enersys, but are built with a fire retardant case denoted by the "FR" in the part number. Would these NP18-12FR batteries be acceptable?

This is why you don't answer two questions with a one word answer! I have had quite enough of these one-word answers by the GDC. Not only is it unprofessional but it is not helpful. I would be surprised if they even read the post through until the end.

Never the less, I have asked them to clarify their response. Particularily in reference to <R34> and the NP18-12BFR batteries. I figure I'll be returning from our competition when I get a response...

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by fox46

Well I agree with you in that I hope they were referring to the first question regarding the PowerSonics but I did indeed post two questions. The second part contained in the last paragraph was:



This is why you don't answer two questions with a one word answer! I have had quite enough of these one-word answers by the GDC. Not only is it unprofessional but it is not helpful. I would be surprised if they even read the post through until the end.

Never the less, I have asked them to clarify their response. Particularily in reference to <R34> and the NP18-12BFR batteries. I figure I'll be returning from our competition when I get a response...

This year the GDC has become incredibly cranky with their Q&A answers. The Q&A forum is supposed to clear up ambiguity in the rules. How are ambiguous answers supposed to clear up ambiguity? does anybody remember when they used to make jokes? Those were good times. I'm also seeing too many questions that include examples for the sake of clarity being ignored and given this response:
"The purpose of this forum is to answer questions on specific rules, not to perform design reviews for legality."

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Alan,
In some defense, the GDC is answering some questions asked by many teams over and over again. If you closely read the question and answers you can easily see how some of the answers are worded so as to not lead to a discussion. Other do not approve a design when it is not possible to guess at the design issue. While I do agree that some answers could be worded better, you do have to have some sympathy for the process. This is done in phone conference when the participants can make arrangements to be available.

[fox46]

http://usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Rob...pdate%2020.pdf

I may or may not be doing a little dance right now

Note to teams purchasing additional batteries: <R34> allows for one EnerSys NP18-12; both the NP18-12B (supplied in the Kit of Parts) and the NP18-12BFR (the same battery with a fire-retardant case) are allowed.

An answer on Q&A the following day would have been nice but I'll settle for this.