Minibots not triping pole sensor but getting points

[meakerb]

From a completely different thread (Another Culture Change) I followed a link (San Antonio 2011 Video)and watched videos from the Alamo regionals. What I noticed (besides the amazing functionality of the robots on the red alliance) was that the red alliance minibots never triped the pole sensor, but still were awarded the points. In some matches the blue alliance had a minibot that did trip the sensor (which then showed 4 lights), but it was not awarded 1st place.

In the Semi Finial 1, Match 1, red alliance had the two fastest minibots, but neither of them triped the pole sensor. The blue alliance had two minibots that scored, showing 4 and 3 lights respectivly, but finished with only 27 points (one red triangle on the middle row for 2 points, and then 3rd and 4th minibot place for 25 more points).

Were there issues with the pole sensors (but only for the red alliance)? I'm not trying to take anything away from the red alliance, but what is the ruling for triping the pole sensor?

[GaryVoshol]

There were issues with the switches in the TOWER triggers that caused many false readings in Week 1 events. The triggers were changed in Week 2 which greatly improved the accuracy, but still did not eliminate the need to sometimes manually score the TOWER after the match was over.

[NullEntity]

Sometimes the switches weren't triggered so the refs had to call it manually. The was a minibot at Milwaukee where a ref actually got on a ladder to if it was contacting the switch or not.

[Danny Diaz]

I worked the Scorekeeper table at the Alamo Regional. In pretty much every match (except the two matches in the finals oddly enough) I had to manually modify the minibot order due to the towers not detecting at all or hit-or-miss detecting causing the towers to detect in the wrong order. It wasn't too bad due to the number of fast versus slow minibots, and only one minibot race (in the quarterfinals if memory serves correct) was REALLY close but fortunately everyone agreed on the order.

As Gary mentioned, they've made great strides since Week 1 to fix the tower issues we saw.

-Danny

[chmconkling]

Originally Posted by NullEntity

Sometimes the switches weren't triggered so the refs had to call it manually. The was a minibot at Milwaukee where a ref actually got on a ladder to if it was contacting the switch or not.

thats hard to do if ure robots like ours and hit the senor and comes right back down the pole

[Danny Diaz]

Originally Posted by NullEntity

Sometimes the switches weren't triggered so the refs had to call it manually. The was a minibot at Milwaukee where a ref actually got on a ladder to if it was contacting the switch or not.

I doubt the ref actually went to see if it was actively contacting the switch for purposes of minibot order, more aptly wanted to see if the bot had the ability to make contact with the switch (or just almost got close enough to "not" make contact with the switch) or see if it was actively making contact so it could determine if something was up with the tower.

With the towers not working at 100%, it's impossible to differentiate between a minibot that is not imparting the 2-4 Newton force required to trigger the tower, a minibot that doesn't make contact with the tower at all (but gets REALLY close), or a successful hit that isn't being recorded properly.

-Danny

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by Danny Diaz

I doubt the ref actually went to see if it was actively contacting the switch for purposes of minibot order, more aptly wanted to see if the bot had the ability to make contact with the switch (or just almost got close enough to "not" make contact with the switch) or see if it was actively making contact so it could determine if something was up with the tower.

With the towers not working at 100%, it's impossible to differentiate between a minibot that is not imparting the 2-4 Newton force required to trigger the tower, a minibot that doesn't make contact with the tower at all (but gets REALLY close), or a successful hit that isn't being recorded properly.

-Danny

Anyone with a high school physics class knows that any minibot in the sub 2 second speed range, with the mass of the battery alone, is contacting with well over 4 Newtons of force.

[KStout#3536]

our team made our minibot to spec to be able to lift and support 4 newtons (4 apples) which is the weight of the bottom plate on the pole (every team should have known about this if they didnt). so everytime we climbed the pole we tripped the sensor and activated the lights on the top of the pole, so when other teams deployed their minibots and didnt trip the plate sensor on the pole but were awarded points we got pretty annoyed with the whole situation but we stuck it out and came in 3rd in the end.

[GaryVoshol]

The problem with the original trigger design is that it incorporated a delay so that the switch had to be tripped for some period of time before the tower lights went on. This was to try to eliminate false-positive signals - the tower triggering just because the pole was struck by a Hostbot. So teams that built their Minibots to spec, moving the lower plate with enough force, did not trigger the tower simply because they came down too soon. Dwell time at the top of the tower was never part of the criteria for triggering, so they changed the design for Week 2. Those fast-return Minibots in Week 1 would have been disadvantaged by the system not in compliance with the stated rules if the quick triggers had not been manually scored.

[Eagleeyedan]

Originally Posted by NullEntity

Sometimes the switches weren't triggered so the refs had to call it manually. The was a minibot at Milwaukee where a ref actually got on a ladder to if it was contacting the switch or not.

I saw that happening a lot. Even saw one that was programmed to go up and down repeatedly for just this incedent and it never triggered.