Another Culture Change

[EricH]

Originally Posted by JVN

So back to the topic...
Can we change the culture within FIRST to where it is no longer okay to make mean remarks about a team on YouTube just because you're jealous of them?

How can we teach teams to use their jealousy to raise the bar instead of try to lower the ceiling?

How do we instill a culture of professionalism?

Can we? I certainly hope so, and think so.

But how? Well, we could respond to every post/comment with a "You don't know the team, please withhold this type of judgment until you do" or some similar device. But that can also make us look bad.

Could we simply ignore actions and comments like that? NO. We cannot afford to. If ignored, they will get worse. Sometimes it might work--but only if the person is a troll looking for a response.

What we can do is to respond appropriately to actions and comments of that form: Invite those making those comments to join us for a while, or ask if we can work with them for a time--the remainder of the event, or a build week(end), or as long as they like, as long as necessary or until one or both decide that differences are irreconcilable. Maybe even trade a few members for a short time, or arrange for the experience to happen with another similar "powerhouse" team. Fight fire with water, if you will. This works especially well if the team making the invitation is the team that has been accused/badmouthed, etc., but may also work for a similar-level team.

If a team opts to accept that offer, ideally both teams benefit. One more team wants to be like the powerhouse, which keeps the powerhouse innovating and the level of competition climbing. One more team "gets it". Two teams become friends. Ideas are exchanged. Teams are exposed to some of the inner workings of other teams.

If a team opts to decline the offer, OTOH, then that's their choice. There isn't a limit to how many times the offer can be extended.

All teams should be reminded of <G60>: Be civil while in the arena. You can't be penalized for off-field actions in a match, but you can be held accountable by field personnel. (paraphrased) I would also say that other teams may help said field personnel in some cases. I'm not going to suggest any methods, but there are a few that could be employed, most of them less than gracious and/or taking way too long to implement (i.e. multiple years instead of weeks/months/one year).

[Zuelu562]

While I'm not particularly fond of the idea of a so called "mentorbot", I understand that team circumstances may warrant the move.

What I frown upon specifically is a team who moves to a "mentorbot" and completely tune out the students involved, and just hand them a "perfect" robot. I don't like the notion, and I would advise any team not to do so.

However, I was reminded by my driver, participating in FIRST as far back as '02 (I was our coach this year) that those circumstances are not a reason to bash a team. I realized several days after our competition, although I did so only in private conversations, I did bash a team I believed of doing that. I realized that that is no reason to do that, especially in FIRST. I know I will take that experience with me through the rest of life, and definitely in my future professional (TM JVN) communications to keep that in mind.

Only JVN could say what he said so elegantly. Thanks for blowing the whistle good sir.

[Vikesrock]

Originally Posted by Zuelu562

What I frown upon specifically is a team who moves to a "mentorbot" and completely tune out the students involved, and just hand them a "perfect" robot. I don't like the notion, and I would advise any team not to do so.

I really don't think this team exists. If they do exist I'm pretty sure they aren't the "powerhouses" everyone is talking about. In fact they are probably not that good at all.

[Taylor]

Although I don't think it applies, the metaphor of athletics is constantly applied to FRC.
So I'll go with that.
If an athlete is very talented/skilled/athletic, people instantly assume that athlete is on steroids/HGH/blood doping. This is so pervasive, it goes outside the traditional popular sports into auto racing, bicycling, even horses and dogs. It doesn't stop at professional sports - think of the East German women swimmers or Chinese gymnasts at their respective Olympic games.
Robots don't have steroids. Thorough inspections certify that. The fallback kneejerk reaction is Adults.
It has been ingrained in us all that every great drama must have a villain. "You're either with us or you're against us." "If you're with us, then you're against them." "If you like A, then you must hate B." Sports are built around rivalries - Packers vs. Vikes, Sox vs. Yanks, Buckeyes vs. Wolverines. To be a fan of your team, you must hate the opponents.
It is critical to our continued growth and success to recognize, and to make others realize, THERE ARE NO OPPONENTS. In the qualifications, alliance partners are (sort of) random. In the eliminations, there are only the good and the other good. We're all part of the same team - it's sometimes called Team Kamen, sometimes called Team Flowers.

[Carolyn_Grace]

Originally Posted by JVN

So back to the topic...
Can we change the culture within FIRST to where it is no longer okay to make mean remarks about a team on YouTube just because you're jealous of them?

How can we teach teams to use their jealousy to raise the bar instead of try to lower the ceiling?

How do we instill a culture of professionalism?

It starts from the top.
FIRST Employees and Officials must demand it of themselves and of each other.
Volunteers must demand it of themselves and of each other.
Mentors must demand it of themselves and of each other.
Everyone needs to keep each other in line....we are all adults and we should expect respect, no matter the circumstance.

And then Mentors must instill this culture of professionalism in their students.
This will not be easy for all students to accept, but that's part of being a mentor. We aren't here to just teach them how to build robots or write essays and give presentations. We aren't here to just be buddies with our students. We aren't here to make sure that they're having a great time all of the time. Our role is not strictly of "coach"...we are Mentors. Our students watch us, on and off the playing field, in and our of the shop, to see how we interact with other people. It is our job, as Mentors, to enforce a positive attitude, to encourage the respect of other teams and members of those teams, and to live that respect ourselves.

It also helps to talk about it. Talk about attitudes in your team meetings, talk about how to handle it if someone is lashing out at you or your team. And talk about how negative attitudes towards other teams are not acceptable.

I've been thinking a lot about the Culture of FIRST. Within that Culture, there are a lot of different kinds of sub-cultures, depending on team's philosophies and values. These sub-cultures may not always align with each other, and they may not also have all of the same goals, but that's part of the beauty of FIRST: it mirrors how the real world is. Not all successful businesses have the same values or goals either, but they learn from each other through their interactions.

Understand that teams are all different from each other.
Respect and learn from these differences, whether you agree with them or not.
Do the best that you can on your own team with a good attitude: that is as inspirational as a robot that goes undefeated all season long.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by EricH

What we can do is to respond appropriately to actions and comments of that form: Invite those making those comments to join us for a while, or ask if we can work with them for a time--the remainder of the event, or a build week(end), or as long as they like, as long as necessary or until one or both decide that differences are irreconcilable. Maybe even trade a few members for a short time, or arrange for the experience to happen with another similar "powerhouse" team. Fight fire with water, if you will. This works especially well if the team making the invitation is the team that has been accused/badmouthed, etc., but may also work for a similar-level team.

If a team opts to accept that offer, ideally both teams benefit. One more team wants to be like the powerhouse, which keeps the powerhouse innovating and the level of competition climbing. One more team "gets it". Two teams become friends. Ideas are exchanged. Teams are exposed to some of the inner workings of other teams.

Not that any of the "powerhouse" teams would not take up such a proposal, but why should they have to?? We're now saying that on top of everything else most of these teams do, they now must prove to teams who question their capabilities that they do it "respectfully"?? I just don't think thats fair to those teams. However, like I said, I doubt any of them would turn down the request.

It's certainly something that must be dealt with. It will require people to speak up and make somewhat awkward situations in times they may usually do or say nothing. Despite all of this, human nature will still run rampant.
The nature to say "wow, our robot was not competitive, it must be because those other teams cheated."

This kind of attitude will be very difficult to deal with because for most teams its never stated publicly or even out loud to other team members. This is where we must emphasize that powerhouse teams need to be celebrated and not persecuted. Like I said, it will have to be on an individual basis, we're all responsible for shifting the culture.

-Brando

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

Not that any of the "powerhouse" teams would not take up such a proposal, but why should they have to?? We're now saying that on top of everything else most of these teams do, they now must prove to teams who question their capabilities that they do it "respectfully"?? I just don't think thats fair to those teams. However, like I said, I doubt any of them would turn down the request.

I would argue that some teams already do this. Displays in pits, community outreach projects, rookie team mentorship, live blogs and webcasts all display this.
In every reveal video I've seen this year, there has been a collage of still photos of people working on designs or parts or assemblies. I would estimate that in less than 4% of these pictures, a non-pre-college-student is the one holding the tools. The evidence is out there, people just choose to ignore it to suit their conspiracy fantasies.
Given, JVN does blog a lot about himself spending a lot of time in front of his CAD machine, but I don't recall him ever saying he was alone, or the designs were solely by him. I rather got the feeling he was working with students, improving upon their ideas.

[colt527]

I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but I was a volunteer on the field every day at the Pittsburgh regional and wanted to put in my input.

First, congratulations to 1114, 1503 and 3492. You guys were great!

I was a first hand witness to one of these types of incidents regarding 1114. So, these types of things do happen. The incident I witnessed involved tempers flaring after a team was eliminated. We have all been there. In the heat of the moment and we let our emotions get the best of us. It is a very tough challenge to try and change the culture so much that tempers will not get the best of teams. However, I believe this change is necessary. It needs to start with the mentors of the team and filter down to the students. The culture of coopertition and gracious professionalism needs to be preached and practiced by the teams early and often.

This is a huge undertaking and I don't think it will be solved by 1 CD thread. Every once in a while it pops up, not much happens, and then it goes back to the same-old, same-old. I don't know yet what this action needs to be, but I think we should have a conversation where we talk about possible solutions and how to actually get them done.

I also want to mention that I don't think Pittsburgh specifically should get a bad wrap from this. This was the first time I had ever been to the regional and the overall reception and attitude of most people was great. It was a super fun regional. However, there were definitely things said and done by people that should never happen and are totally unacceptable. In all the situations, it seemed like the bad comments and actions did not represent the whole team, but a small group of students inside that team. I have also been to many other regionals and the problem seems to be widespread.

[MrForbes]

John--I don't know if you really understand how things look from the other end. Maybe you do, or maybe you did at one time, but forgot.

I read Neal's book "The New Cool". 2009 was a great year for the our team the NERDS, we had a lot of seniors who were very enthusiastic, and we built a pretty good working and looking robot, mostly out of plywood and plastic pipe (it even sported a couple pieces of wood 2x4). Reading Neal's book brought back the whole thing, our robot was similar to 1717's design, and we played against them in Los Angeles. They went on to dominate at the Davis regional, we went on to dominate at the Arizona regional. We both went to Championships, where we got lost in the shuffle and they lost to an unstoppable powerhouse alliance at the division level.

While reading the book, it occurred to me that our team put in maybe half as much effective effort as 1717 that year. From what I've seen of how some of the "powerhouse" teams operate, my guess is that 1717 put in about one quarter to one half as much effective effort as those teams. Yet we blew away the field at Arizona that year. With 1/4 to 1/8th as much as it takes to be a powerhouse. Where does that put the majority of teams?

The powerhouse teams not just incrementally "better" than most teams. This is an exponential phenomenon. The teams that look at your robot don't think to themselves "if we worked a little harder, we could do that!". They think "Gosh golly, those guys have magic!"

I called it "effective effort", and that's really what it is. There's some combination of brainpower, enthusiasm, experience, energy, and who knows what, that makes a powerhouse team. It's magic. Sure, all the other teams can get there....just like anyone can win the lottery.

We're human, we have emotions, and one of them is jealousy. When the chasm between what one team can do and what another can do is so great, there are bound to be resentments.

How we deal with these emotions is something we can control, and we have to control. Thanks for bringing this issue up in public where we can talk about how to deal with it.

[Dmentor]

Originally Posted by JVN

Can we change the culture within FIRST to where it is no longer okay to make mean remarks about a team on YouTube just because you're jealous of them?

Maybe. Here are my proposed strategies:

Zero Tolerance – Organizational policy stating unacceptable behavior will not be tolerated. Clearly define the unacceptable behaviors AND define punishments for not following. Record and document each and every infraction. Make the punishment have teeth; I suggest individual and/or team exclusion from events for repeat documented offenses. Could include escalation scale and should include mediation framework to arbitrate inevitable he said/she said.

Systemic Training – Starting with kickoff and repeated at each event. Clearly communicate zero tolerance policy and what to do when it occurs; Suggest mandatory incident reporting (ie. if you see it report it). This helps offset the “guilt” associated with reporting since it is required and if there are umpteen reports of an incident you can bet it happened.

Vocal Majority – Stated many times already in this thread: Stand Up and Speak Up. Grab a handful of well respected mentors across teams and confront bad behavior. Most of all model good behavior and be proactive about recognizing good behavior from other teams.

More Social Socials – Get to know each other better. Suggest having socials on Thursday night before the competition. Do not use the “party” framework. Intentionally mix up team member and force them to learn and participate in games cross-team. It is harder to hate someone when you know them by name.

Proactive Graciousness – If you lose go tell each team on the opposing alliance “good job”. If you win go tell each team on the opposing alliance “good job”. In sports we shake hands after we compete win or lose, should be the same after each match.

Eliminate Anonymity – Also stated in this thread. Personal restraint is loosened when they think they won’t be caught. Establish positive credentials system to ensure that what is said publically on forums such as this can be attributed.

I don't believe morality can be legislated so these actions will never fully solve the problem; however, the focused approach should help minimize the offenses.

[ShortBang]

Having read all ten pages of this thread, there is something that I fell still needs to be added to the conversation.

While I have never had the honor of sharing the field with 1114 and many of the other "power teams" mentioned, and I admittedly hold a Yankee type jealousy towards them, I have shared the field with certain Nationally known and recognized teams and left the field feeling quite offended, my respect for that team gone.

This team had an adult mentor as their drive coach, who took control of the decisions from the get go. He would not listen to our teams input, for it was his way or the highway. The lack of respect he showed for Me as a student, my fellow students, and the students on the third team was completely appalling, and to me, reflected on the rest of his team.

At another competition, a mentor from the same team was waiting with our team in the queing area, waiting for our match together to begin. At this time we were having problems with our drivetrain, and another student and I had our hands in the robot fixing it. This mentor came over, proclaimed that we were going about fixing it the wrong way, and threw his hands into our robot to begin to do it his way. I quickly, and probably rather rudely responded to him that us students could fix our own teams robot, and we didn't need his help.

I guess the moral of the story is that sometimes these hard feelings do have a base to support them. While booing a team and making remarks about them is completely unacceptable, I feel that maybe some teams/mentors also dont realize that their actions have contributed to their "reputation."

Don't take this as criticism towards 1114, who for all I hear, and can tell,not only make awesome robots, but foster the kind of team that FIRST dreams about. But just as there are bad apples that boo them, there are bad apple "power teams" that lend to that reputation.

[Carol]

As has been suggested many times in this thread already, most of FIRST does not read CD. I challenge everyone reading this to stand up at their next team meeting and remind the team - students, mentors and parents - of what is acceptable behavior and what is not. And if they witness such behaviors, reprimand the bad behaviors and acknowledge the good behavior. FIRST is not talk radio or what passes for "commentary" on TV, where you are encouraged to belittle and abuse anyone who acts or thinks differently than you. FIRST celebrates differences.


Spread the word. If you don't have your own, and are at a event with MOE, ask for one of our GP or Grandmother buttons.

http://moe365.org/spirit.php

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

Not that any of the "powerhouse" teams would not take up such a proposal, but why should they have to?? We're now saying that on top of everything else most of these teams do, they now must prove to teams who question their capabilities that they do it "respectfully"?? I just don't think thats fair to those teams. However, like I said, I doubt any of them would turn down the request.

If you'll notice, I never said that it was required. I do feel that it's the best option that I can think of, both in terms of speed and in terms of not being a total jerk. That's not saying that someone else can't come up with a better idea.

Some other options I came up with:
--Judges blocking teams out of awards, no matter if they should get it or not--would probably work best if a note was sent to the team after the event explaining the reason
--Teams not allying with that team in eliminations, no matter how good their robot was, by decline if necessary
--Calling the team out publicly
--"Return the favor"; that is, do the same thing to them that they're doing to you/other team at the event

How many of those options would actually work? How many would take longer than a year? How many would create really bad feelings?

Again, for those reading this thread, remember <G60>. Remember the real meaning of Gracious Professionalism.

[Madison]

In NO other circumstance would the victim of an attack be expected to explain to others why the attack on them was unjust. This should be no different. These teams should not be asked to do anything more than they already do -- especially as an attempt to get others to stop mistreating them.

If we want more people to value these teams, then those of us that already value them need to step up, speak out and defend them when people act and behave like jerks. We shouldn't expect the teams being insulted to do it alone, we shouldn't expect the event organizers to do it on our behalf and we shouldn't expect FIRST to do it on any level. Peer pressure works. Use it for a good reason and you can make a lot of good happen.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by EricH

If you'll notice, I never said that it was required. I do feel that it's the best option that I can think of, both in terms of speed and in terms of not being a total jerk. That's not saying that someone else can't come up with a better idea.

Madison summarized exactly what my response would have been.

It's not a team action that needs to occur, its actions needed to be taken on individual basis for anyone involved in FIRST.

-Brando