pic: Seattle Cascade tubes.

[sanddrag]

Was the tube size template ever specified in the rules? Gosh, when we were designing our mechanism, the corners of the triangle did not look gigantic like that, and the tube still seemed adequately inflated. Why the need to really fill it so much?

[penguinfrk]

My friend from BC, an alumnus of Trobotics (is Jason here? ) was talking about how the Cascade Regional webcast is far louder than the Olympic Regional webcast. In the pits, Cascade music definitely drowns out Olympic music.

About the tubes--
For our practices matches, we've had to make judgment calls during the queue for Olympic because of the discrepancies in tube sizes. We have a strand of latex tubing across our gripper to more easily account for different sized tubes, and we change the tension based on how inflated the tubes are from the queuing line.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by penguinfrk

My friend from BC, an alumnus of Trobotics (is Jason here? ) was talking about how the Cascade Regional webcast is far louder than the Olympic Regional webcast. In the pits, Cascade music definitely drowns out Olympic music.

I could hardly miss a quick glance at CD during this great competition! I actually haven't had the chance to check out the webcasts, but you can bet that I think Cascade is louder than Olympic... but then again, I'm biased... I'm doing inspection and judging on Cascade!

I'm really looking forward to getting some time to check out the Olympic field tommorrow. Not often one gets to see two great regionals take place in one great venue!

I was also doing my little "happy dance" today when it was announced that Robert Steele, "the Skunkfather" was Cascade's WFFA recipient (not to mention a volunteer of the year!). A great recognition for a great guy, who heads up a great team.

Jason

[PaW]

Originally Posted by dtengineering

...

I was also doing my little "happy dance" today when it was announced that Robert Steele, "the Skunkfather" was Cascade's WFFA recipient (not to mention a volunteer of the year!). A great recognition for a great guy, who heads up a great team.

Jason

Agree. Hats off to Bob Steele (and the Skunks) for their never-ending help to all teams, big or small, new or old. Many deserving individuals in both Cascade and Olympic... tough choice for the judges!

Aviation HS: time for a bigger trophy case!

Congrats also to Donna Lew (FRC488) for recognition of her tireless efforts (Outstanding Volunteer of the Year shared award w/Bob Steele).

[Mr V]

The Olympic tubes were similar, but the worst that I saw was a triangle on Cascade where it really had to be forced through the slot. I only caught 2 matches though as I was over there to see 1 of our minibots get successfully deployed by MRT 3216.

[Navid Shafa]

Thanks go to all! I agree with all of you whom have said that our coach's WFFA was long overdue...

What an amazing weekend and we get to do it all again in three more days!

[FlyingHedgeHog]

Ideally robots would be designed to handle almost any level of tube inflation without much difficulty. I know 1983, 488, 360, and other such teams who grabbed the inside of the tubes were fine. 1510's claw was modified a little bit, but we got it working by midday Friday and it could handle any tube.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by FlyingHedgeHog

Ideally robots would be designed to handle almost any level of tube inflation without much difficulty. I know 1983, 488, 360, and other such teams who grabbed the inside of the tubes were fine. 1510's claw was modified a little bit, but we got it working by midday Friday and it could handle any tube.

Even our whisker had some trouble with the overinflated tubes. In our lab, tubes displayed a sort of "arch" along their length, leaving a gap between the tube and floor at the center of each edge of a triangle or square. The overinflated tubes do not have this gap and it made picking up from the floor challenging.

[SamMullen]

My brother and a friend of ours inflated the first 60 or so tubes for the Olympic field and they said they pumped it up till it looked right and then they popped the u shaped stencil thing on the tube, making sure both sides were touched. They let off a little air if the tubes were compressed, but they also said they didn't have to do that. They said the way it was explained to them it was only illegal if it was too small to touch both sides, not if it was really large.

[princessnatalie]

Originally Posted by Mr V

The Olympic tubes were similar, but the worst that I saw was a triangle on Cascade where it really had to be forced through the slot. I only caught 2 matches though as I was over there to see 1 of our minibots get successfully deployed by MRT 3216.

Yeah being the HP for my team during finals I can attest to that.
The triangles were literally shoved through the slot on my part, which was not what any one on my team wouldve expected. More specific specs wouldve been nice.

[Bob Steele]

I filled the first set of tubes on Wednesday night for Cascade. Initially they just gave us the frame with no instructions. On Thursday morning the FTA talked to me regard the fact that the 7 and 8 inch widths were to be measured parallel to the flat of the tube. We had been measuring them normal to that flat. We went back that morning and redid every tube. (They all had to be pumped higher) They do seem quite large but we were just bringing them to a pressure that touched the inside of the wooden gauge.

I did notice that later on, when I was working with my team, the hardworking volunteer in charge of the tubes was filling them to a point that they had to be squeezed to get them out of the gauge. So they were larger than the 7 and 8" that we had already set. I did not feel it was proper for me to ask about that.. I felt that he must have been given instructions...I know they did look larger than the ones we had made up on Thursday night and Friday morning.

I believe the key is to blow them up the last little bit inside the gauge and to stop when the tube touches...

Even when that is done, most teams would be surprised how large they are...and how mis-shapen the triangle becomes when it is is blown up to 7" . I know our team was surprised so we adjusted to that and went on.

The field crew at Cascade was trying their very best to make everything as good as they could. I can attest to this as I helped a little bit on Wed night to construct the field. The care they took in getting the lines and the positions for everything was incredible.

I do think better instructions should have been forthcoming...

i would like to thank the Cascade field crew for a job well done!!

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Was the tube size template ever specified in the rules? Gosh, when we were designing our mechanism, the corners of the triangle did not look gigantic like that, and the tube still seemed adequately inflated. Why the need to really fill it so much?

The device was not spelled out, but the spec was:

Originally Posted by 2.2.9

The body of each GAME PIECE has a tubular cross-section, nominally between 7 and 8 inches in diameter at their narrowest. The GAME PIECES are inflated to nominal size, not a specific pressure.

As I recall, the triangles use the 7" guage, and the square and circle use the 8" guage. The way the triangle is made causes it to bulge up at the corners. The square does so as well, but not as much.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

The device was not spelled out, but the spec was:
As I recall, the triangles use the 7" guage, and the square and circle use the 8" guage. The way the triangle is made causes it to bulge up at the corners. The square does so as well, but not as much.

These tubes are easily 20% larger than the tubes in Florida (but still smaller than the tubes I saw in NJ).

I have it on good authority (from just asking refs and FTAs) that the field manual is pretty sparse on details as to HOW to use the gauge (blow up UNTIL the tube fits vs. blow up and FORCE the tube to fit vs. blow it up all the way and hey, it still fits!).

With a compliant object like an inflated inner tube, I have no doubt that a triangle on the verge of bursting could still fit into a 7" gauge...

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Jared341

With a compliant object like an inflated inner tube, I have no doubt that a triangle on the verge of bursting could still fit into a 7" gauge...

Jared, weren't the FTA's in week one Jamming the tubes into the Gauge..?

What bothers me most about over inflated tubes is that they don't fit through the feeder slot in some cases. If the tube doesn't fit through the slot then don't you think someone would realize that it's too big....?

(Also, you know there is a problem when someone who has never been exposed to Logomotion (My Boss/Our Sponsor) can tell that the tube sizes vary a lot more than they should.)

[pfreivald]

We experienced tremendous difficulties at FLR because the tubes were much more inflated than we were led to believe they would be, even with the gauges specified before week one.

Now that we finally have our claw working well with the super-inflated tubes, I wonder if we'll have to modify it again when next we play...

--------

The lesson I learn every year, and then seem to have to re-learn every year: never engineer too closely, because all FIRST specs are nominal, even if they aren't labeled nominal -- and if they are labeled nominal, they could be anything.