Playing a different game on Einstein

[Lil' Lavery]

None of the alliances on Einstein will have a "minibot specialist." Guaranteed.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

None of the alliances on Einstein will have a "minibot specialist." Guaranteed.

Have we even seen a robot that would fall into the category of "Minibot Specialist"?

I wouldn't doubt that a team may make it to Einstein while filling a role where their primary objective is to win the minibot race, but they'd HAVE to do something else for the first minute and 40 seconds.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Have we even seen a robot that would fall into the category of "Minibot Specialist"?
.

I have seen a couple bots that were able to drive around and deploying a minibot was essentially their only "scoring" capability. It actually did quite well at its event.

In general, this bot either played defense or pushed tube for the first 1 minute or so.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Have we even seen a robot that would fall into the category of "Minibot Specialist"?

I wouldn't doubt that a team may make it to Einstein while filling a role where their primary objective is to win the minibot race, but they'd HAVE to do something else for the first minute and 40 seconds.

I'm not talking about a team that doesn't do anything for the first 1:40. Any alliance that relies on a single robot to win minibot races for them match after match won't reach Einstein.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by IKE

I have seen a couple bots that were able to drive around and deploying a minibot was essentially their only "scoring" capability. It actually did quite well at its event.

In general, this bot either played defense or pushed tube for the first 1 minute or so.

Ike, do you thing this robot would fair well at the Championship?

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I'm not talking about a team that doesn't do anything for the first 1:40. Any alliance that relies on a single robot to win minibot races for them match after match won't reach Einstein.

The only way I could see that happening is if said minibot had some sort of "game breaking" strategy where it could afford to sit at the tower all match. (And after 469 last year, I'm not ruling anything out.)

[MaxMax161]

For the sake of argument lets assume that at least two robots probably three that reach finals in St. Louis will be able to minibot. Do you think their going to camp the pole at 25s-20s, try and rush in at 15s from the other side of the field or hang that one last tube and go for not a first place minibot and deploy after 10s?

[Jared Russell]

I agree that a "minibot specialist" is unlikely, simply because if your minibot is *that* much better than your tube scorers', you're going to be off the board early.

However, I do believe that all three bots are likely to at least have a minibot, lest someone breaks down, gets blocked, or fails to deploy.

In one Florida practice match, our alliance had 3 minibots. One robot went to the left tower and deployed without problems. The second robot went to the right tower, but their bot failed to start climbing. We went over to the right tower and deployed our minibot above the one sitting on the base and climbed successfully.

[Basel A]

Very interesting thread!

A few thoughts:
1. 3 Hanger-bot alliances are already having trouble. it will probably be easiest to have 2 Hanger-bots and one assister (likely a feeder+minibot). That said, a team that can master the collusion of three hanger-bots, even if one is only scoring on lower pegs, may take the Championship by filling the rack top to bottom.
2. What I like about a minibot specialist in St. Louis is that they'll be low ranked, and trained feeders or defenders. That's really underrated. Teams with the "wrong strategy," like us last year with the suspensions, usually make excellent third-round picks. There are feeder-bots, like team 1 this year, who suck in qualifications, but given a good scorer in the zone, they excel. This was shown at Kettering, where they were champs, and they're utlising the same strategy to the same effect this weekend at Detroit.
3. Throwing vs. Loading. I think the best alliances will have smart feeders. This means they only throw the tubes their alliances need, and only throw them to their alliances. Traditionally, even in 2009, human players didn't need to be good, they just needed to be smart, and I believe that will again be key. Also, as alliances seek to fill the rack, which will happen more than once in STL as well as the MSC, they will understand the need to be more careful with tubes they're wary to lose.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by MaxMax161

Do you think their going to camp the pole at 25s-20s, try and rush in at 15s from the other side of the field or hang that one last tube and go for not a first place minibot and deploy after 10s?

I think deploying and then scoring the last tube will be more likely than scoring then deploying with less than 10 seconds left.

I don't think there will be a minibot specialist (as in a robot picked to only deploy their minibot and can't score tubes), because I doubt there will be a team that has a significantly faster minibot that didn't have time or the ability to build a working arm. I expect the fastest minibots will be on the elite tube scoring robots for the most part.

[Arefin Bari]

Originally Posted by Swampdude

Throwing Vs human load: I still don't get the throw them all out there strategy. Everyone thinks human load is a handycap but I think we proved that untrue. There's a dynamic that happens with us on the field that isn't obvious. Since we do not throw tubes out, our ground loading partner gets a chunk of the other teams tubes along with their own. But there's missing tubes on the floor when we play that I think is statistically playing into our favor. So I think 1 ground loader, 1 human loader and 1 defender is optimal. We also draw attention away from our ground loading partner while traversing the field. I think after the top row is done middle is bonus but minibots are really the only way to win the match after the top rows are filled.

Not every team has a driver like Team 179 does. Your driver adapted well to all obstacles on the field (including other robots) and was simply just fast. Also your human player didn't take long time to load the tubes into your claw. There are many teams out there that are relaying upon human loading; but the factor that no one is taking into account is how fast can you load and score.

On to topic, I do feel the same way Dan does. 2 very fast scoring robots + 2 fast minibots with 1 team that can distract the opposing alliance will be the ultimate alliance at the championship. In the 2 minutes that we have a lot of things can go wrong; I believe rather than competing on how many you can score vs. slowing your opponents down play a huge role in your final score.

[Norman J]

Originally Posted by Basel A

Traditionally, even in 2009, human players didn't need to be good, they just needed to be smart, and I believe that will again be key.

I disagree on this point. The HP needs to be good and smart. A human player who is practiced enough to throw all 3 shapes consistently into the scoring area or even within a few feet of it will be incredibly valuable. Each throw he/she makes saves that alliance two trips across the field through defense. He/she has to be good because a bad throw will not only not help at all, but save the other alliance two trips across the field through defense.

[Basel A]

Originally Posted by Norman J

I disagree on this point. The HP needs to be good and smart. A human player who is practiced enough to throw all 3 shapes consistently into the scoring area or even within a few feet of it will be incredibly valuable. Each throw he/she makes saves that alliance two trips across the field through defense. He/she has to be good because a bad throw will not only not help at all, but save the other alliance two trips across the field through defense.

I agree that would be valuable, but I think what is necessary and likely will be a smart human player. They don't necessarily need to get it to the scoring zone, but they need to be accurate and make it past the midfield line. Farther is better, but most important is that it lands closest to an alliance robot.

That said, I will always take a feeder who can throw into the scoring zone every time than one that can very accurately place tubes in the near midfield area. Once inside the scoring zone, for the better robots, it's only a matter of a few seconds to score.

[mwtidd]

Originally Posted by Norman J

I disagree on this point. The HP needs to be good and smart. A human player who is practiced enough to throw all 3 shapes consistently into the scoring area or even within a few feet of it will be incredibly valuable. Each throw he/she makes saves that alliance two trips across the field through defense. He/she has to be good because a bad throw will not only not help at all, but save the other alliance two trips across the field through defense.

A bad throw can also result with the tube in the other team's lane, where you can't grab it.

[Norman J]

Originally Posted by Basel A

I agree that would be valuable, but I think what is necessary and likely will be a smart human player. They don't necessarily need to get it to the scoring zone, but they need to be accurate and make it past the midfield line. Farther is better, but most important is that it lands closest to an alliance robot.

That said, I will always take a feeder who can throw into the scoring zone every time than one that can very accurately place tubes in the near midfield area. Once inside the scoring zone, for the better robots, it's only a matter of a few seconds to score.

I definitely agree that most importantly, a human player has to know where and what to throw. But nearly everyone can figure that out. What will distinguish the good from the excellent are consistency, accuracy and range.

[Hawiian Cadder]

if there are only going to be 2 mini-bots scored and one robot on the feild will be a defense and feeder type robot, then it might make sense to make a 15 lbs minibot in order to give it more grip to push around other robots. 10% increase in weight is a 10% increase in pushing power with the right gearing.