Team Update #18

[Miksoko]

Actually, that's quite good. You're right: any bot with the potential of winning the match (being the first to the top) will have enough velocity to trigger the pole. A lighter robot, unless it had an illegal battery or power source, would not have the velocity to create enough force, and the larger robot would being expending force on getting up the pole, therefore sacrificing velocity.

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Ether

Be aware that the calculation does not include any consideration of the time it takes the bot to accelerate to the indicated top speed. So if you use the top speed to calculate how long it will take to get to the top of the pole, the answer will be optimistic.

Keep in mind, there may exist a design in which the minibot is accelerated (reaching top speed) before it ever gets to the pole...

Originally Posted by jspatz1

This graph matches our experimental results. Our climb time was minimum at .40" dia.

But how much did your minibot weigh during this test, which found this diameter to be optimal?

[Josh Fritsch]

Not sure if someone has updated everyone, but we have not had any issues at West Michigan so far

[martin417]

Peachtree update:

No false positives, no false negatives (that I witnessed). Every minibot that made it to the top of the tower triggered the tower. It looks like, for peachtree at least, all this worry was for naught.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by martin417

Peachtree update:

No false positives, no false negatives (that I witnessed). Every minibot that made it to the top of the tower triggered the tower. It looks like, for peachtree at least, all this worry was for naught.

That's wonderful!

[JB987]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Just witnessed a false positive on the Bayou webcast. Minibot was about halfway up the tower when the lights triggered.

Impossible event since everything was fixed according to the update

[wireties]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Keep in mind, there may exist a design in which the minibot is accelerated (reaching top speed) before it ever gets to the pole...

I don't think so. When it grabs the pole it will slow down and then accelerate again. It can't climb faster than it can free spin or even travel horizontally, not on Earth anyways.

[Mark McLeod]

I've seen a couple of teams (190 at WPI) with a clever deployment design that uses the same sized pipe curved to mate to the tower.
The minibot starts out accelerating downward off the hostbot (gravity a plus), then follows the curving pipe to start up the tower at full speed.

[boomergeek]

Originally Posted by sanddrag

Keep in mind, there may exist a design in which the minibot is accelerated (reaching top speed) before it ever gets to the pole...

<G19> MINIBOTS must remain completely autonomous and move up the POST solely through electric energy provided after the start of DEPLOYMENT by the permitted, unaltered battery and converted to mechanical energy by the permitted unaltered motors (and associated, appropriate circuitry). Violation: The TOWER on which the MINIBOT is DEPLOYED is disabled. If the MINIBOT is DEPLOYED on something other than a TOWER, then the ALLIANCE’S TOWER upon which the highest RACE SCORE was earned will be discounted.

<G19> means that HOSTBOTS are not allowed to launch the MINIBOT up the pole at the TARGET, or otherwise contribute to the vertical movement of the MINIBOT. Energy for vertical movement may not be stored in the MINIBOT before DEPLOYMENT (except that which is contained within the battery and excluding incidental kinetic energy stored in the motors or wheels, but NOT, for example, in a flywheel).
(My highlighting, not FIRST's)

Since DEPLOYMENT starts when the miniboot crosses into the cylinder, it cannot have energy other than "incidental" kinetic energy in the wheels.
Incidental horizontal running starts prior to crossing into deployment-i.e., the length of the minibot will probably be overlooked as incidental.

Converting the horizontal energy produced by the minibot while over the cylinder is allowed: so the speed at the point of crossing the start line for a ramp can be higher than a minbot that uses an arm to place the minibot on the pole. I think a ramp bot can reach a higher top speed but the question is how much faster can other mechanisms get the bot to the start line as compared to the ramp bot. If the non-ramp bots do not start with a significant lead, the ramp bots can pass them (Assuming equal efficiency).

Also of note: the ramp needs to be well below the start line such that none of the minibot is in contact with it when any of the minibot crosses the start line.

My bet is that a ramp bot will record the fastest time. (We do not have a rampbot: at least not yet )

Also of note: rampbots need to demonstrate that their hostbot does NOT provide horizontal momentum to the minibot: E.g., a host bot that suddenly decelerates as it is reaching the tower and is not completely motionless as it deploys the minibot COULD be imparting non incidental kinetic energy. Referees will need to watch out for that.

[Paul Copioli]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

I've seen a couple of teams (190 at WPI) with a clever deployment design that uses the same sized pipe curved to mate to the tower.
The minibot starts out accelerating downward off the hostbot (gravity a plus), then follows the curving pipe to start up the tower at full speed.

In my opinion, this is illegal per the rules mentioned above. The hostbot is providing a track that is pushing the minibot up vertically.

[MagiChau]

West Michigan from what I know found no problem with Team Update 18. From what I remember all minibots that went up scored.

[Kpchem]

Update from Seattle Cascade:

Today there were no false positives in 64 matches on the Seattle Cascade field. If I remember correctly, there were two instances where a minibot successfully reached the top of the tower, but did not trigger the sensors. In both instances, the referees followed the latest Team Update and did not score it. Both of those minibots scored at other times throughout the regional.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

In my opinion, this is illegal per the rules mentioned above. The hostbot is providing a track that is pushing the minibot up vertically.

But the power is coming from the minibot. I therefore believe that it is legal. This would be an interesting topic in the "You make the call" section.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

In my opinion, this is illegal per the rules mentioned above. The hostbot is providing a track that is pushing the minibot up vertically.

I've never thought of it that way, but I can't argue with that...

Sucks to be 190 and 233 I guess.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

I've never thought of it that way, but I can't argue with that...

Sucks to be 190 and 233 I guess.

Be careful to paint both teams with the same brush stroke. Mark made a specific description of 190's deployment which made Paul think it's illegal, namely the creation of potential energy by the downward movement along the track. From my understanding, Pink's ramp only goes upward, meaning the track (and thus the hostbot) would not be contributing any energy.