What happened in the finals at West Michigan?

[mwtidd]

How did
1918 2257 and 27 beat
2054 107 and 67 ????

They kept an alliance who put up
63 and 114 in QF
and 92 and 118 in SF

to only 69 and 56 points in the finals....

to me it looks like it wasn't the best individual robots who won, but the best defense and teamwork that won West Michigan....

Congrats to 1918 2257 and 27!

[Grecelis93]

Match 1-
Both 2054 and 107 lost Comm.

Match 2-
We ran over a popped Uber tube and that got jammed in our whole left drive.

Bad luck happened.

Congrats to 1918, 27 and 3357

Hopefully we'll see again at States

[Josh Fritsch]

2054, 67, and 107 were quite a force to be reckoned with, thats for sure. The finals at West Michigan were very exciting. I think 2054 had some comms problems in the first match though.

I cant imagine what States is going to be like.

FYI: 1918, 27 and 3357 put up 96 in QF and 121 in SF...not sure how you categorize the "best individual robots". I think all 6 robots from both alliances played very strong all weekend.

[GGCO]

I agree the technical problems the red alliance encountered need to be taken into account, but lineskier is right - the scores speak for themselves.

Going into the eliminations we knew we'd be facing 2054, 67, and 107 in the finals. We also knew that our bot (3357) would have to shut down 67 while 1918 and 27 scored in order for the blue alliance to win. We did this by:

1. Using Starcraft terms, constantly harassed each team. As soon as they were about to pick something up we rammed them or moved the game piece
2. Pushed all the triangles into our lanes so they couldn't complete a logo
3. Pushed other tubes towards 1918 and 27
4. Blocked teams from scoring minibots

[mwtidd]

Thanks for the insights everyone!

First off I would like to congratulate 67 and 2054 for making it onto my top 25 (based on ETC). 2054 actually taking my #2 spot.

I'm curious if anyone knows what caused the comms problems.

Great strategy Grant! It seems that defense is a (if not the) critical element in many of the finals matches.

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by GGCO

I agree the technical problems the red alliance encountered need to be taken into account, but lineskier is right - the scores speak for themselves.

Going into the eliminations we knew we'd be facing 2054, 67, and 107 in the finals. We also knew that our bot (3357) would have to shut down 67 while 1918 and 27 scored in order for the blue alliance to win. We did this by:

1. Using Starcraft terms, constantly harassed each team. As soon as they were about to pick something up we rammed them or moved the game piece
2. Pushed all the triangles into our lanes so they couldn't complete a logo
3. Pushed other tubes towards 1918 and 27
4. Blocked teams from scoring minibots

You guys played the most effective defense our team has seen all season. You made fans out of our entire shop as we watched a single robot effectively defend three at once!

I personally thought a defense only robot would be ineffective, I was clearly wrong.

[Adam Freeman]

Originally Posted by Josh Fritsch

2054, 67, and 107 were quite a force to be reckoned with, thats for sure. The finals at West Michigan were very exciting. I think 2054 had some comms problems in the first match though.

I cant imagine what States is going to be like.

FYI: 1918, 27 and 3357 put up 96 in QF and 121 in SF...not sure how you categorize the "best individual robots". I think all 6 robots from both alliances played very strong all weekend.

2054 had some type of computer issue, where it would not recognize their joysticks... so they set still during the entire first match.

107 had 201 CAN errors registered at the end of the match. I can't really say what effect it had on their performance....b/c I was busy trying to outscore 1918 and 27 alone, with 3357 playing the toughest defense we have encountered.

In the second match, somehow we managed to pickup a tube that was full when we got it and deflated 5s later when we tried to hang it. That might have made the difference. Then we ran over a deflated Uber-tube and got it jammed up in our drive train. We completely derailed all the chains on that side attempting to get it out. Needless to say we were essentially disabled.

Would I like to play those matches again with no issues, yes. Have I won matches and Championships when other teams have experienced similar issues, yes. It takes more than just a very skilled alliance to win.

My honest analysis of the teams:

Both 1918 and 27 are incredible robots capable of putting up just as many logos as 67 and 2054.

I think 67 and 2054's minibots were a little faster, only b/c in F1 our minibot was #1 and in F2 2054's minibot was #1.

We had an advantage that our autonomous modes were a little more consistent. In F1 we had a 2 to 1 Uber-tube advantage and in F2 we had a 3 to 1 advantage.

3357 was the X factor, because they really limited the number of tubes we were able to put up. I don't believe that 107 had a significant effect on limiting 1918 or 27.

I feel our alliance would have won, if everything went right....but part of this game is having the most reliable robots.

1918, 27, and 3357 was the better alliance this weekend!

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by GGCO

2. Pushed all the triangles into our lanes so they couldn't complete a logo

Shhhh! You should keep that one a secret for later. It's a lot more efficient to concentrate on 1/3 of the opponent's tubes when it reduces their scoring potential by up to 2/3. Smart work.

[GGCO]

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

Shhhh! You should keep that one a secret for later. It's a lot more efficient to concentrate on 1/3 of the opponent's tubes when it reduces their scoring potential by up to 2/3. Smart work.

Ah oh well. I'm looking forward to seeing how teams adapt to this. When they do we'll just think of something better.

[TEE]

Originally Posted by GGCO

2. Pushed all the triangles into our lanes so they couldn't complete a logo

I don't know if team 217 did this on purpose, but when they played against us and 469, we ended up not being able to complete a logo because we couldn't get a white tube (unfortunately, the only one 469 could get to was deflated). So yeah... tube-starving = success

[Wayne TenBrink]

Originally Posted by TEE

I don't know if team 217 did this on purpose, but when they played against us and 469, we ended up not being able to complete a logo because we couldn't get a white tube (unfortunately, the only one 469 could get to was deflated). So yeah... tube-starving = success

Selective tube starvation - more effective than general purpose tube starvation.

[TEE]

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

Selective tube starvation - more effective than general purpose tube starvation.

That's what I meant
Thanks for catching that

[Paul Copioli]

Originally Posted by TEE

I don't know if team 217 did this on purpose, but when they played against us and 469, we ended up not being able to complete a logo because we couldn't get a white tube (unfortunately, the only one 469 could get to was deflated). So yeah... tube-starving = success

Yep. We did it on purpose. We were severely outgunned in that match and we figured the only way we could win is starve the logo completion and win the minibot race.

I am afraid that as the HP get better, the tube starvation method will be less effective. I am sure we will come up with something else.

[Patrick Seeney]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

Yep. We did it on purpose. We were severely outgunned in that match and we figured the only way we could win is starve the logo completion and win the minibot race.

I am afraid that as the HP get better, the tube starvation method will be less effective. I am sure we will come up with something else.

I agree with you, as teams figure out how to best toss those tubes full court, strategies will change and change. Should make for an exciting rest of season! Great finals against you guys at Detroit! See you at Troy!

[johnr]

So next week we will see a match were no tubes are thrown because HPs are waiting to see what the other HPs are not throwing out.