Notifying teams of yellow/red cards

[bduddy]

At St. Louis it appeared that the head ref managed to show the card to the driver station before the team left, and each one was announced over the intercom.

I also think that every penalty should be announced over the PA as well - how hard would it be to establish some kind of standard system, like the NFL? Explain each rule the first time it comes up, then just say the rule number or a brief description of each penalty as it occurs. IMO this would dramatically improve the spectator experience.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by RyanN

We were yellow carded this weekend because of our 5th person on the floor during finals was not allowed to be on the floor. They said on the PA system that each team going into the finals was allowed one extra person to help with the robot. We sent out our normal mentor we always send out, and we were yellow carded because we were only allowed to have 4 people.

No worries though, it did not change the outcome of the competition. We were just not sure why that was against the rules, and still don't. It does hurt our reputation though. We were penalized 12 points for it though.

Maybe someone who saw or was judging the Bayou Regional finals could clarify why were were yellow carded so we don't do it again?

The extra person rule applies only at the Championship and is partly due to the long distances between pit and field. You can find the rule in the Tournament section of the Game Rules, Section 5.6 Championship Additions.

[Navid Shafa]

I have to agree with Madison whole-heartedly. I also understand that being a ref is a tiresome, thankless job. I just felt really crappy, when I had to go to the ref's question Box to get rules clarified. Often the responses proved that either a ruling disregarded a rule or that they agreed with me, but "didn't see it"...

It's rough, but that just means that us and 488 will need to start winning our matches by 30 extra points to compensate for the unspoken or unclear penalties. You do that and you'll have a shot at getting some ties for matches...

Hang in there, you weren't alone this weekend. Let's keep our heads up and hope for a little better communication in the weekend to come!

[RyanN]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

The extra person rule applies only at the Championship and is partly due to the long distances between pit and field. You can find the rule in the Tournament section of the Game Rules, Section 5.6 Championship Additions.

I'm almost positive I heard them announce it over the PA though. I know it's not in the rules, but if FIRST announced it over the PA system to the teams, it shouldn't matter. I wasn't the only one that heard the announcement either.

[RMiller]

Originally Posted by RyanN

I'm almost positive I heard them announce it over the PA though. I know it's not in the rules, but if FIRST announced it over the PA system to the teams, it shouldn't matter. I wasn't the only one that heard the announcement either.

Unfortunately, you will find that sometimes at FIRST events, the hand doesn't know what the foot is doing resulting in miscommunications and telling people the wrong things. I personally would always try to check with a second person (preferably one that it will matter to) if something seems out of the ordinary. In your case for instance (I realize it is too late), check with the head ref since that is where it would matter.

At one of the regionals I have been to the Pit Admin said a number of incorrect things, such as teams were not allowed to go to practice matches (at all) unless they were fully inspected. Another was, the Inspection Station will be open until 8PM tonight, so there is no rush to be inspected (this at 1PM when only 1 out of 40 teams had finished inspection).

[wlaroche]

I was a Ref in Duluth and we had some matches that had over 5 penalties, and it seemed like there were only a couple of handfuls of penalty free matches. The head Ref had to tabulate the penalties (with the correct rule number, G12, G32...), give them to the announcer so they could be read off to the stands, and then run over to the station and show the yellow/red cards. The field reset had to happen real quick with all of the tubes having to get back into place. So I could see why teams would not know if they got a yellow/red card. If you see the Ref's huddling up, there is most likely some penalties being called.

If there is ever a question about a ruling on the field, go to the question box. I know I tried to keep an eye open to see if anyone was standing there and send someone over in a timely manner. The head Ref in Duluth was more than willing to answer any questions you may have.

[Dad1279]

Originally Posted by RyanN

I'm almost positive I heard them announce it over the PA though. I know it's not in the rules, but if FIRST announced it over the PA system to the teams, it shouldn't matter. I wasn't the only one that heard the announcement either.

In NY we were allowed extra people, but they were supposed to stand on the side, not on the field, and were given badges. I believe this was to expedite match turnover, because there was not enough time to return to the pit.

[akoscielski3]

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

I noticed in FLR and Pitt that the head ref's would walk over to the driver station of which team would get the card.

I have always saw this at our regionals, and the referee's should always do this. I am on the drive team and if he did not show the card an dtell us the reason we would have never known that one of our alliance partners (playoff match) got a card.

Maybe someone could approach an official (if he.she is not doin this) and ask (politely) for thme to always show the card and tell everyone the reason for the call.

Also in Pitt there was a question box in which you could stand inside the box and wait for the fref to approach you. Then you can ask the ref what were the penalties for, etc. I am not sure if these are at every competition?

[RyanN]

Originally Posted by RMiller

Unfortunately, you will find that sometimes at FIRST events, the hand doesn't know what the foot is doing resulting in miscommunications and telling people the wrong things. I personally would always try to check with a second person (preferably one that it will matter to) if something seems out of the ordinary. In your case for instance (I realize it is too late), check with the head ref since that is where it would matter.

At one of the regionals I have been to the Pit Admin said a number of incorrect things, such as teams were not allowed to go to practice matches (at all) unless they were fully inspected. Another was, the Inspection Station will be open until 8PM tonight, so there is no rush to be inspected (this at 1PM when only 1 out of 40 teams had finished inspection).

It didn't seem out of the ordinary though... I'm not sure what happened. I guess I should just drop the argument. What happened, happened. It's too late to bring it up. It might not be in the rules, but it is apparently happening at other regionals too.

[Gary Dillard]

Originally Posted by RyanN

We were yellow carded this weekend because of our 5th person on the floor during finals was not allowed to be on the floor. They said on the PA system that each team going into the finals was allowed one extra person to help with the robot. We sent out our normal mentor we always send out, and we were yellow carded because we were only allowed to have 4 people.

No worries though, it did not change the outcome of the competition. We were just not sure why that was against the rules, and still don't. It does hurt our reputation though. We were penalized 12 points for it though.

Maybe someone who saw or was judging the Bayou Regional finals could clarify why were were yellow carded so we don't do it again?

I don't know about the specifics of your match, but I did hear at another regional webcast something to the effect that someone else on their team on the field had been giving signals so they got a yellow card. I've had to warn volunteers and media people about this before - they get carried away cheering and forget they can't give advice like "move closer" because of their advantage point on the field.

[eedoga]

I know this is probably the least effective place to post this idea, what if refs had flags like in football. They would throw the flag in the direction of the robot or person breaking the rules.

I understand that it is in every teams interests to have all team members and mentors memorize all of the rules. It just seams like there are times when people unintentionally break the rules and don't know they are breaking them.

Also, I know that all of the regionals are on a tight time schedule. Perhaps having a few members on the drive team remove the robot, and giving drive team coaches an opportunity to talk to a ref would be of benefit.

[Knufire]

Same here, when we got a red card at the Detroit District event, the head referee personally came to our pit after the match to tell us that we got a red card and explained why.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by eedoga

I know this is probably the least effective place to post this idea, what if refs had flags like in football. They would throw the flag in the direction of the robot or person breaking the rules.

I understand that it is in every teams interests to have all team members and mentors memorize all of the rules. It just seams like there are times when people unintentionally break the rules and don't know they are breaking them.

Also, I know that all of the regionals are on a tight time schedule. Perhaps having a few members on the drive team remove the robot, and giving drive team coaches an opportunity to talk to a ref would be of benefit.

I believe they used to do this. The problem is, do you really want flags littering the field during a match? Robots would run over them, move them, and possibly break either the flag or a robot... The flags on dowels the refs have now are probably the best solution.

[Flyer522]

Originally Posted by RyanN

I'm almost positive I heard them announce it over the PA though. I know it's not in the rules, but if FIRST announced it over the PA system to the teams, it shouldn't matter. I wasn't the only one that heard the announcement either.

We saw that also, and heard when the finals started that you could have a 5th person, over the PA. I did ask about it, and was told that you could have a 5th person. They had to have been wearing the safety captain badge though, and could only stand behind the carpet. Did you guys obey all of that?