pic: One-day Minibot

[Steve_Alaniz]

xx

[JesseK]

If teams wanted to keep their designs 100% totally secret, even on the field, they could have spent an ounce or two on non-functional decorations. Who knew what the kickoff minibot's design was until it was examined via a photo posted after kickoff? Strategically, that's a hard call though. Do you risk negating the full effectiveness of the design for design longevity over 8 weeks?

It's always easy to build something you have a good sense of where to start. It's why IP laws exist in the first place. It's also why the powerhouse teams will still probably kick our butts in weeks 1-2 next year.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

Is there an A in Q&A that tells us definitely that the pinion is not part of the motor? There has been a lot of traffic about pressing things onto the motor shaft, but I don't recall anything about the pinion being a Tetrix part and thereby modifiable.

<R93> Minibot motors may not be modified except:
a) as allowed in Rule <R47 A-D>
b) a burned out motor may be repaired by replacement of the burned-out inductor with an
identical part.

<R47> Motors and servos used on the ROBOT shall not be modified in any way, except as follows:
A. The mounting brackets and/or output shaft/interface of the motors may be modified to facilitate the physical connection of the motor to the ROBOT and actuated part.
B. The electrical input leads on the motors may be trimmed to length as necessary.
C. The locking pins on the window motors may be removed.
D. The connector housings on the Window motors (PN 262100-3030 and 262100-3040) may
be modified to facilitate lead connections.

R47-A covers the removal of the pinion - if you consider the pinion to be a part of the motor.

Personally, I don't believe that the Pinion is an "integral part" of the motor, since removing it doesn't change how the motor works...

[Bill_B]

Originally Posted by thefro526

R47-A covers the removal of the pinion - if you consider the pinion to be a part of the motor.

Personally, I don't believe that the Pinion is an "integral part" of the motor, since removing it doesn't change how the motor works...

I read <R47A> several times, too. I think that the modifications allowed by it relate to the attachment of the motor to the robot or the shaft attaching to actuated part. So if the pinion is part of the motor shaft then, OK by r47a. In the case of the Tetrix motor, there is a bracket to which the gearbox is attached. Part of the gearbox? or motor? Maybe it doesn't matter, since modification of it is allowed to change attachment of the motor to the robot. I don't think that the pinion is part of the attachment of the motor to the robot, but it is part of the attachment to the actuated part.

The blue section below <R47> outlines the intent of forbidding structural modification. I'm really not trying to be pedantic, but if removing the pinion didn't change how the motor "works", then why do it? weight reduction? That is my opinion of course, and we all know how influential personal opinions are at the inspection station, right?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Guys,
1) In a world where everything is open, reverse engineering is capable. There is no way that anyone can consider that their minibot design is not going to be copied in part or in whole by another team. This design is in fact used in some iteration over the whole country thus far and in no small way mimics the design of one of the minibots used for demo at the kickoff. Why do you think magnets are in the allowable materials list?

2) Removing the motor pinion is an allowable modification. It has been since at least the first Fisher Price motor was provided in the KOP.

3) The push/push switch at the top of the minibot must be labeled as a "light switch" or at least marketed as a light switch to be legal. If it is merely in the same area of the store where there are light switches is not enough to classify this as a light switch. The GDC has ruled that even if certain manufacturers use it as a light switch in an appliance you can buy, it does not make it a "light switch". Be prepared to show documentation.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

3) The push/push switch at the top of the minibot must be labeled as a "light switch" or at least marketed as a light switch to be legal. If it is merely in the same area of the store where there are light switches is not enough to classify this as alight switch. The GDC has ruled that even if certain manufacturers use it as a light switch in an appliance you can buy, it does not make it a "light switch". Be prepared to show documentation.

Al, I was able to find an identical switch to the one that Sanddrag is using at a local hardware store. On the packaging it mentions "For use on Lamps and Light Fixtures". I'd imagine that line would make it legal.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Guys,

3) The push/push switch at the top of the minibot must be labeled as a "light switch" or at least marketed as a light switch to be legal. If it is merely in the same area of the store where there are light switches is not enough to classify this as alight switch. The GDC has ruled that even if certain manufacturers use it as a light switch in an appliance you can buy, it does not make it a "light switch". Be prepared to show documentation.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36731?

So is a "Lamp", a "Light"?

Just happened to have a pic on my phone for some reason... Will the GDC comment on pictures? I know they won't comment on specific designs.

[PhilBot]

Originally Posted by IKE

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/36731?
So is a "Lamp", a "Light"?

I've never met one that wasn't.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

Judging by the post by Chris is Me, this minibot design is circulating around New England as well.

Yessir it is. A couple of our teams have been collaboratively working on minibot design since the beginning of the season. Slowly but surely we all also came to the same conclusions in design as 254 etc.. (or at least we think we have because we're all running similar speed minibots).

Our group of teams would like to thank 1625 and Richard's post about the Tetrix motor specs for initial design inspiration. Anything after that has been under our own development and we have all accomplished 1-1.5 second minibots.

I'm surprised we're still seeing the "who inspired what" debates especially after sanddrag pretty much explained what most teams who came to this minibot design went through.

Thanks for your insight in your own design sanddrag! It is the very same engineering process we went through. The big issue we were having was the light switch we found (which thankfully Al said is legal! ).

Now onto making deployment faster

[Chris is me]

40, 177, 190, and 2791 all had variations of the direct drive minibot at WPI. 2791's design was a combination of at home engineering with some helpful tips from 816 to save us a few iterations.

Who knows how many teams will have them at later events? We certainly showed off our Revision B to a few dozen teams there.

We are using lessons learned at that regional with some "inspiration" from other teams to work on a further revision. We are not copying directly, just using others as a starting point.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Yessir it is. A couple of our teams have been collaboratively working on minibot design since the beginning of the season. Slowly but surely we all also came to the same conclusions in design as 254 etc.. (or at least we think we have because we're all running similar speed minibots).

Originally Posted by Chris is me

2791's design was a combination of at home engineering with some helpful tips from 816 to save us a few iterations.

Sometimes it seems that people forget that teams outside of the "Elite" tier often share information as well. We might not have the resources to reach the conclusions on our own, but after enough combined failures from the 5 or so teams involved, we seem to have something that works.

[James Tonthat]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Sometimes it seems that people forget that teams outside of the "Elite" tier often share information as well. We might not have the resources to reach the conclusions on our own, but after enough combined failures from the 5 or so teams involved, we seem to have something that works.

Our team got a lot of help from Dustin when he shared with us his backpack man design. We improved upon it, made a better clamp system, did some electronics voodoo magic and it helped win us a regional.

[billbo911]

Originally Posted by James Tonthat

We... did some electronics voodoo magic and it helped win us a regional.

I love electronics voodoo magic. It makes things work so much better!

[sanddrag]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Why do you think magnets are in the allowable materials list?

<R92-AA> Did you mean to say "aren't" ?

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Nope, magnets are allowed for use on minibots.